Magnum, thanks for the clarification. Ultimately, it seems that 'trust' is what's missing here. To a degree, I guess that's why I have not yet purchased this title as well. I would really, really like for this to be worth $80. I would be happy to spend that amount on a quality product, but need to be assured in some way.

To the developer who popped in: there are likely many of us who are keenly interested in this title. It truly looks like it has amazing potential. Assuming this is the quality product that it seems to be, I would be inclined to say that establishing trust with your intended marked will be your biggest challenge. I hope the best for this title and hope that word of mouth can sufficiently translate into sales for you.

I admit, I broke down and bought it. I have had no crashes and it seems to work as designed. Not only this but it is pretty entertaining. I have quickly realized that I'm much better with tanks than with ships and aircraft. It is a great piece of software.

I have to admit reading about the scenarios has got me interested - Fauklands! Vietnam! I will be waiting for the complete SimHQ review before seriously thinking about plunking down the cash for this game. If it looks like it will have the same replay value as WitP admirals Ed. I will take the plunge.

Amazing how some will spend $500 for VBS2, hoping for an ultimate game experience without much thought of it's designed purpose, a training tool for the military, not a 1st person shooter in the same vein as Ghost Recon or how about the continued and evolving Steel Beasts and it's various upgrades? Initially $125.00, then 2 upgrades of $45.00 a pop and NO demo until about a year ago. Then there's Combat Mission Shock Force or Normandy with their various add-on's as well. The price is what it is! If it's your niche, go out on the same limb everyone else has and give it a whirl, I did.

I can't begin to tell you how often I've read a review posted here or on other websites, firmly leaving with starry eyed expectations only to be let down because it didn't grab me like it did the reviewer, either because the reviewer got it for free and therefore is willing to overlook some stuff or they truly enjoyed it. Such is life! I did my part in supporting another developer and will continue to do so for I suspect many more years to come.

Look at the old study sims such as F14 Fleet Defender, Falcon 4.0 and FSX. The rivet counters that have done more to drive away future developers because one arm rest was a bit off or the seat cushion was the wrong color. Really? C'mon! Have you looked at Train Simulator and all it's DLC or, God forbid, FSX again. Many of it's add-on's are double or triple the price of the original game!

The price is what it is. I agree CMANO's a bit high and some of Matrix's other products in that similar price range I haven't even looked at because of that price point. Shame on Matrix? Not really. It's their business decision. Would they sell more copies if it were cheaper? Most likely and perhaps. But it's their business and no one is forced or mandated to support it. However, CMANO grabbed my attention from the beginning because I loved Harpoon, Fleet Command and NWS. Ever since I was given a virtual ability to patrol the GIUK and defend freedom's gate from the Warsaw Pact horde, I was hooked.

The entire bitterness toward the company should be taken up in it's own separate thread. Quit flipping polluting it with "fanboy" comments, "greedy company" and other ridiculous childish rants not in any form or shape conducive to healthy debate.

Magnum, personally I'm a bit dismayed by your position as one of the leading contributors of this forum and others. Clearly you have much time on your hand to review, test, demo and play so many titles out there. I envy you often because of that. But what I would expect from you is the ability to post your thoughts a bit more articulated and neutral rather than make it your personal vendetta to make sure everyone knows your disgruntlement with the developers pricing scheme. I asked you and others to please forgo the "fanboy" moniker, but you just couldn't let it be. I even gladly sent you a copy of the manual before it was available in hopes of showing the goodness the designer put into this simulation. Hell, I was even gonna go out on a limb and consider sending you my beta access if I thought it might help. Not because I wanted to betray Dimitris or Matrix, but because it's a pretty damn interesting game and your stance while your opinion and in some respects I agree, was linking your opinion of Matrix's business with the release of a labor of love by so many on that CMANO team. That's not the Magnum I've likened to the wise and worldly reviewer/gamer that contributes so much to this forum.

The Matrix forum is rife with many happy people of who went out on a limb and spent their hard earned $80.00 for CMANO. There's also some not so happy, but there will always be some dis-satisfaction. Flipping move on with it!

Mods, are we really going to allow this thread to dilute a great game, in my humble opinion and not start putting some commentators in check, me included? Hell, ban me for an attack on Magnum, I don't care. I come here daily to read updates, admittedly from the likes of Magnum, Guod and Gunny Highway, but let's try to remember, in the end, it's your choice to either buy or not buy a product. But don't pretend for a moment that there aren't may other titles out there that cost far more money or equal to this. That's just insane.

Matt

I think it's amazing you and other fans of the games only defense (and/or attack) is comparing this to the VBS series and the SB Pro PE series, when it has been explained over and over.

And I think it's amazing that you haven't once read a thread where I explained that it isn't actually the price but the unknown.

And I also think it's amazing that in your post above I take it you use to respect me and my opinion on games somewhat, but now we don't agree on one game, one companies history of greed with games and now I'm the bad guy.

and finally... I don't think I have posted or attacked this game or company since you sent me that e-mail with the manual, (I made my opinion known and was letting it go)... I guess you expected me to do a 180 after reading the manual? Would love to buy the game, just can't afford too right now. Kid in college and a kid who just had a medical emergency... maybe when I get my holiday pay, or probably not. For someone who is suppose to know me so well, you must not of been following me lately. I stopped buying every game, as you posted above, a year ago... why? Because of lack of funds, time, and the greed of the industry, not just Matrix Games... EA, UbiSoft etc etc.

You seemed pissed that the majority seem to have my opinion on the matter, oh well then...that's your problem not mine.

and one more thing.. think it's funny you go off on that rant, and call me out, but then end it with a request to the mods to police it... now that's pathetic.

and I just noticed... I started this thread, I asked the question and voiced my opinion... don't like it, don't read my threads. lol

Magnum, et al,

I've read all the CMANO threads with much attention. Matter of fact, aside from Dimitris, I'm the only one defending it of sorts. It isn't often that I get spun up over debates and as a general principal stay out of some of the debates because in the end it's just an opinion.

First off, please never doubt the regard I hold for your opinion. You're all over SimHQ, matter of fact legendary status comes to mind. Should my debate have been taken off line? Perhaps. But it's because of your revered status and the way you came out so strongly attaching the quality of CMANO with the publishers pricing scheme, that immediately sets the tone for many in the follow through. I mean look at the follow up postings after your initial post. Posters weren't even coming up with original words in their replies, choosing not to await a review. You and a few others are the tone and carry much virtual weight in forming others opinions.

But it's because of that weight that I chose to make a stand, publicly, after your last posting regarding "fanboys" and addressing sinner6's inquiry about Steel Beasts. I don't think it fair to lump CMANOs potential qualities with the publishers price gouging techniques, two seperate topics. As a career Soldier, I know nothing of how developers find publishers. But, thinking aloud a bit, I don't imagine they're like recruiters, standing in your front lobby casting snare lines for passing developers. So perhaps they picked the best fit for their niche game and whether it was agreed upon on the price point ahead of time, I have no idea.

As the OP of the thread and the hardcore poster I still respect, please forgive my publicly open tirade. I just felt that much of the original tone and rhetoric could have been dialed down a bit. As I have stated many times, I agree with much you have said, I just felt that two bulls in the china shop with opposing and similar views might find a middle ground and spare some dishes.

Humbly,
Matt

BTW, I fully understand life and its challenges. It's been those challenges in life the last few years that have driven me into forums reading reviews about games and hardware that have helped form my opinions on my purchases. You were instrumental in many of those choices. As someone whose last son is moving out this weekend and whose career is taking him overseas again, it'll get better for you and the sacrifices you've made will be repaid twofold.

and here we go ..........

useless thread already starting to turn in to countless pages of arguments. Pages of pages of why "I'm right and your wrong" posts.

I'll say this, the amazing thing is the game. Expensive? Yes. But if I play it anywhere near the amount that I played Fleet Command it will be well worth the price.

This is the exact reason why I don't trust reviewers anymore, especially print reviews. These days, you never know which reviewer is in which developers/producer's pocket. Only about a year ago I learned the TheWargamer.com was owned by Matrix/Slitherine. Heck, SimHQ could be owned by Eagle Dynamics or some other flight sim company, we would never know.

All I need is a 'Lets Play' video and I can be my own reviewer. In fact, it blows my mind how some game companies fail to sell their games. Screw the demo, flood the net with unedited YouTube gameplay videos of your games! This is something that blows my mind with Matrix/Slitherine; their lack of 'selling'. Why game developers even waste time with trailer videos is beyond me. Most of the time there is very little gameplay footage

Your distrust of reviews is understandable. So here's a series of prolonged playthroughs.

One of the Command players is streaming live plays (and then stores on Youtube) of his adventures with the game. So if anyone's interested to see how Command feels, behaves and performs on a real-world system (instead of relying on anecdotal sources) look here: http://www.youtube.com/user/baloogan/feed

"

While I can't speak for anyone purchasing VBS2, there is a huge difference between the release of SB Pro PE, CMSF and CMBN, and that of CMANO. It may be technically true that SB Pro PE just came out with a demo, many of us spent quite a bit of time with the original SB or SB Gold prior to Pro PE's release. Also, Battlefront has consistently supplied demos and shown that they are willing to support their titles, something that Matrix/Slitherine or the designers of CMANO have yet to display fro this title. And while I have enjoyed Harpoon and Jane's Fleet Command in the past, $80 is a bit steep for a game with no demo and track record of support yet from its design team to just "go out on a limb"



That's a pretty casual attitude those of us who are limited in our gaming dollars, to just "flipping move on with it" if we spend the $80+ and are displeased with the purchase. I for one have a very limited gaming budget and I need more than developer videos or the word of a few supporters before I'm willing to part with so much money.

All points well taken. I can tell you from the beta side, emsoy and mikeyk are on their A game about listening, receiving and fixing the issues that arise. There is a patch already out that is a result of buyer feedback. I too am normally not one to impulsively buy, but this one is a genre that's been begging for an update so I got it. I also bought NWAC and we all know where that one went.

Yes, it is a sad state of affairs that more sites and people are not up front about any potential conflicts of interest.

I rarely visit the wargamer site anymore. Does the wargamer site disclose in easy to find and read that they are now owned by matrix/slitherine? Do they spell this out whenever they review any product from the master owners? I do recall there was that one guy posting at wargamer forum (Jaguar name or something similar) that was really pumping CM games at his site with reviews and comments. I believe he finally admitted or was found out to have helped with the game design or sumfink.

IIUC, the virtualr site is run by a guy who is working in pCARS game. some people made the recommendation for the site to mention this since they run a lot of pCARS news, but i believe he declined.

anyway, I also bought Command.


game is running fine, no performance problems at all. Too early for me to add my voice to the chorus of player reviews.

I know nothing about naval warfare so I am tackling a very steep learning curve! gulp! haha Some of the GUI design is not to my liking and actually detracts from my enjoyment. the big black box of environmental data that follows my cursor around the map and cannot be turned off or removed is a major annoyance. I am in the minority so I do not expect a fix which is a shame. I would think in the year 2013 everything should have an option to be turned off or on by the player.


All I want to say at this point is that I look forward to spending more time with the game.

That price wouldn't be a concern for me, but Command just isn't my cup of tea even though I put countless hours into the Harpoon series. Perhaps if the UI didn't appear like a cluttered mess from a Win98 demo, I might give it a try. But as is, just judging from the screenshots alone, information dissemination and comprehension appears like it is in overload.

In today's day and age of game programing, manipulating such a myriad of Windows tiles just isn't necessary at all. In fact, it's antiquated.


On a side note - Don't like a review? Attack the reviewer.



http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3422661

I really enjoyed watching some gameplay to make up my own mind. It's really long, but enjoyable (well, for me). No expert in the genre, but it looks really nice.



(Video will need fullscreen/720p I'd guess)

Redundant link already posted in review section.

Also a link to their history with the reviewer: http://www.warfaresims.com/index.php?s=herman

Seems to be not the best decision for a reviewer on SimHQ´s side!
Even if the claims on the warfaresims homepage are not true Herman shouldn´t have given the task to review this game imho because the past between reviewer and developer seems to be tarnished!

I made that post on the Matrix Command forum drawing their attention to the SimHQ review without knowing anything about the dark history between the developers and this writer. I feel bad about it now because they were obviously so shocked and dismayed at SimHQ's choice of reviewer that they locked up the thread after posting a link to the history of the relationship.

Whereas the review is critical, it's not malicious; however it is clear to me, having read the linked article, that this was a very unfortunate choice of reviewer.

I can't get myself worked up about the pricing, sorry. In a world where I can be bamboozled into paying $15 for a POS like "Takedown" I feel obliged to concede that paying $80 for Command (not including my beta tester's discount) is a more worthwhile use of both my time and my money.

Was the SimHQ review pulled?