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#3823141 - 08/16/13 02:57 PM Circle orbit 2-ship *****  
Joined: Jun 2006
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sUrgeon Offline
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Circle orbit
The circle orbit is one available method of holding over a specific point. A circle orbit isn’t just a leader and a straggler; if you’re not on opposite sides of the circle you don’t have mutual support. The circle orbit has the lowest pilot workload as it allows the use of altitude hold autopilot, but it also offers potentially reduced mutual support. The circle orbit is not recommended where a hostile air threat exists.

In DCS world there are parts with mountainous terrain. Using a racetrack over there, will mask targets (and you will loss EOT Eyes On Target (or marking of the targets)), due to high ridgelines.

The circle orbit can be offset or overhead the target area. So far for the theory. But putting this into practice is far from easy (compared to racetrack attacks).





Entering the circle is relatively easy. Lead calls “circle” and turns hard into the wingman for about 135 degrees. The wingman waits until the lead’s nose passes him and then begins an easy turn into lead. Once the wingie starts his turn, the lead reverses back into the wingie, and the circle is formed. The turn in the circle is with 25-50 degree of bank.



Another way is; take spacing and enter an orbit over the target/IP/keyhole point, by going to trail formation. Use a weave to adjust spacing.Set your airspeed to allow spacing control. Altitude control to remain level with everyone else. To maintain a constant radius around a fixed point on the ground your bank angle will need to constantly change as a result of the constant change in your ground speed.

The keyhole CAS template with offset circle orbit

The keyhole is a quick and effective template that can be placed over the target.
The direction from the target may be given as magnetic headings or codeword axes (like A, B, C or D) from the target. The keyhole technique works as well for CSAR as it does for CAS. The threat generally determines the distance the CAS are required to hold from the target.




Or:

Circle around the designated target. Ideal for non-linear battlefields with “pockets” of enemy activity.

Overhead circle orbit



1. Fly your A10 at 250 knots and Angels 12.
2. Place the target approx 2,5nm off your right wing. Use your TAD MFD (see MFD pic below) in 5 nM scale to achieve this (inner circle equals 2,5nm).
3. Roll your aircraft into a 25-50 degree right turn (see HUD pic below) and immediately engage ALT autopilot [LALT + 2]. Adjust bank when needed.
4. Set engine RPM to 90% to maintain airspeed (heavy jet).



Attacks are done individually with the flight lead clearing the person in. Everyone else remain in orbit. When cleared to attack, each pilot then maneuver to set his orbit roll in to meet dive parameters and FAC attack restrictions. In the pull off, the pilot regain visual on the person in front of him and climb back up into the orbit .

Base airspeed 240kt, MK82 45HA1, airspeed on delivery 350kt, DTOF 10.8. Track time is about 5 seconds.
ACD of 1.6 nM, aim off distance 0.3 nM



Last edited by sUrgeon; 01/19/14 07:35 PM.
Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#3827739 - 08/27/13 02:28 AM Re: Circle orbit 2-ship [Re: sUrgeon]  
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BeachAV8R Offline
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KCLT
Great post.. smile

BeachAV8R



#3828142 - 08/27/13 10:57 PM Re: Circle orbit 2-ship [Re: sUrgeon]  
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Frederf Offline
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What's the command to get the AI to do this?

#3828191 - 08/28/13 02:00 AM Re: Circle orbit 2-ship [Re: sUrgeon]  
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Snoopy_476th Offline
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Warner Robins Ga, USA
Fly MP...otherwise you're out of luck.

#3840647 - 09/22/13 08:57 PM Re: Circle orbit 2-ship [Re: sUrgeon]  
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Toonsis Offline
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Toonsis  Offline
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That is some wild real world tactics, but I game alone I could never recreate this

#3989836 - 08/02/14 08:30 PM Re: Circle orbit 2-ship [Re: sUrgeon]  
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sUrgeon Offline
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sUrgeon  Offline
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Posts: 51
Q&A with a former A10 pilot about losing speed when climbing back to orbit altitude:

Speed control in the A-10 is more of a problem for the pilot than in other fighters for this reason...

The operational speed envelope is much smaller...we might say that 200kts is the minimum that we would want to fly, and we know that 350kts or so is about the max that we can get with the most advantageous conditions. Add to that the low thrust-to-weight capability even in a clean configuration and we have a speed situation where we have to be very aware of our energy state at all times.

One real world example comes to mind. Once when I was at Red Flag (Nevada in the summer time), an inexperienced A-10 pilot tried to climb away from the target area and reach the orbit point on a plateau. The high outside air temperature significantly reduced his speed capability...the pilot was too fixated on navigation and climbing to watch his speed. The result was that he stalled the jet in the climb...he ejected OK but the accident should never have happened.

In any fighter, the pilot has to know when enough is enough. I recommend that you consider 200kts a minimum...if you are trying to do something that results in your speed going below 200kts, stop doing that!! Relax back pressure, roll wings level, lower the nose, and accelerate back to a safer speed. That exact speed will depend on weight and altitude, but 250kts is a good place to start.

Then remember this...a safe practical speed may not be a safe tactical speed. Threat environment may well dictate that you keep a higher speed than what the speed envelope says the jet can do. Tactically, we need to be able to turn. That requires a relatively high speed because turn performance is adversely affected by slower speeds. At Red Flag, we established 250kts as the minimum speed in any situation...it was a "knock it off" speed where the pilot was required to stop his tactical maneuvering, roll wings level, lower the nose, and accelerate. As a result, we were considerably limited in how much "yanking and banking" that we could do. The fact of the matter was that the jet had serious performance limitations that had to be observed...forcing the jet to do more than it could might well result in a very bad outcome.

When climbing back up to the orbit altitude, accept the reality that this may take longer than you like. 200kts minimum in the climb, faster if possible. Don't get fixated on what's going on outside the cockpit...remember the old saying...speed is life.



Last edited by sUrgeon; 08/02/14 08:31 PM.

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