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#3819327 - 08/07/13 04:16 AM What is the best flight control hardware?  
Joined: Jul 2010
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Ardu Offline
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Ardu  Offline
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I'm looking to get a joystick/throttle control, TrackIr 5, and rudder pedals, but I don't know what the best choices are. My present joystick is wearing out. It is a 3 axis unit and I believe pedals and TrackIr are now essential.

The biggest question seems to be which stick:
1- Thrusmaster Warthog. Well rated quality, but is it overkill in terms of features for COD? Put another way is this stick too dedicated for a different sim? And there's the price. Also, does it play nice with Saitek pedals, which I'm planning on getting?
2- Saitek X65 Combat stick. How difficult to program with COD? Is this no-deflection stick reasonable with a WWII sim? Does it make sense to use a no-deflection stick with moveable rudder pedals (yes, I know this is a question that leads to another question, can I rub my head and pat my stomach at the same time. I don't know, but do I really want to?) Then there is the price.
3- Saitek X52 stick. Seems OK, but does it center precisely? Is it as durable as the above sticks. Does it perform as well?

I've read all kinds of reviews, but would prefer to hear from folks who are flying COD, full realism or very close to full realism, at least with complex engine management activated.

Thanks for any advice.

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#3819369 - 08/07/13 08:41 AM Re: What is the best flight control hardware? [Re: Ardu]  
Joined: Jun 2011
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bolox Offline
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bolox  Offline
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Well, if you really want the best hardware....

http://www.spitsim.co.uk/
price might be an issue tho neaner

Can't really comment on the sticks you are looking at as haven't used them.
Personally If forced to start from scratch, choosing between the 3 I would be looking hard at the Warthog. - probably with a Saitek trim wheel, maybe throttle quadrant and a set of these as pedals
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3782056/Rudder_pedals_prototype_1_poss#Post3782056

#3819402 - 08/07/13 11:45 AM Re: What is the best flight control hardware? [Re: Ardu]  
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Georgio Offline
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Georgio  Offline
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Hockley, UK
Can't speak for the other gear you mentioned but I have a stock Warthog with Saitek Combat Pro pedals and a TrackIR 3 w/vector expansion.
The Warthog is an excellent stick that just oozes quality, it's very smooth and accurate. As you're aware the stick/throttle have a zillion buttons and levers and you might think it over-kill but it's nice to be able to map everything in CloD (or anything else) directly to a button/lever.
The Saitek Pro pedals are also the best in their class in my opinion, again very smooth and responsive. They feature real metal pedals with toe brakes and work perfectly with the Warthog.
Add in the Track IR unit and you currently have the best set-up for flight simming at least until the Oculus Rift hits the market, hopefully next year.

#3819652 - 08/07/13 09:14 PM Re: What is the best flight control hardware? [Re: Ardu]  
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Ardu Offline
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Ardu  Offline
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Have to love the Net. Two great responses. And yes I was familiar with the Spit cockpit set up. Even if I could justify the cash outlay I don't think I could look my friends and family in the face, they'd all be saying "... if you can spend that kind of money..." Besides, to justify that kind of setup I'd then have to do something wild and run multiple computer screens, and dream up some high powered PC that would run on 220 volt lines... Better yet, mount the chair on hydraulic motors to raise, tilt and lower it and go for the full effect. Maybe buy one of the old Bulls that were in all the bars a few decades ago...

However, I did learn something (against all odds), the Oculus Rift. Figured that was some geographic feature in Britain or maybe North Africa. Now I know. I think I'll spend my cash now and let time and user feedback improve on the first versions of The Rift.

Thanks to both of the folks who quickly responded to my question.

I'm very tempted to go with the Wart Hog stick. Equally important it's nice to have some assurance that the TrackIr and pedals are good ideas and that they will all do well together.

Hope this also helps others who are wondering.

#3819777 - 08/08/13 03:26 AM Re: What is the best flight control hardware? [Re: Ardu]  
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 564
gx007 Offline
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gx007  Offline
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Posts: 564
Menifee, CA
I use the x52 HOTAS, CH Products rudders, and TrackIR3. I've had the x52 for years and the programming language is fairly easy to use. It's less robust than the other units but still gets the job done. I replaced the ch rudders once and TIR3 still works great, though it doesn't have the fov as models #4 or #5.

#3819801 - 08/08/13 05:44 AM Re: What is the best flight control hardware? [Re: Ardu]  
Joined: Nov 2001
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Sokol1 Offline
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Sokol1  Offline
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Probable for the cost of Warthog plus Saitek Combat Pedals you get a CH stick, throttle, pedals plus quadrant - important for WWII sims (prop pitch, mixture, radiators, trim...), thats means more flexibility, since you target is CloD.

My only misgiving is the fact that CH still use 8 bits (256 points of resolution) USB controllers.

On actual games seems this dont make so much difference, some players claim that actual games are not modeled to take advantage of higher resolution controllers (Warthog is advertising as 14 bits... but seens that use a 12 bits HALL sensor...).

But in RoF forum someone claim that rudder control in RoF show advantage if the controller use more resolution... Perhaps the announced il-2:BoS will be the same case.

Sokol1

#3819802 - 08/08/13 05:49 AM Re: What is the best flight control hardware? [Re: Ardu]  
Joined: Sep 2007
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NamelessPFG Offline
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X-52? Programming language? All I saw was a GUI for keyboard/mouse macros, nothing resembling an actual programming language of the sort TM or CH offer...but it's still more than enough functionality for most people.

I wouldn't call the HOTAS Warthog cripplingly overspecialized toward the A-10C, but you may have a harder time trying to find good use of all the buttons and switches in relatively simple WWII-era aircraft. Still, better to have something and not need it than to need something and not have it.

Some virtual pilots swear by old Microsoft SideWinder Force-Feedback 2s because they don't like flying old warbirds without force-feedback; it apparently helps them fly on the edge and get a better sense of the plane's handling. As always, YMMV.

Oh, and while I haven't tried the X-65F, I have tried a FCC-modded Cougar, and sure enough, force-sensing just isn't for these twitchy old warbirds where fine adjustments can lead to drastic movements, if IL-2: 1946 was anything to go by. It's perfect for Falcon BMS, as you'd expect, but I find it hard to recommend for anything that isn't fly-by-wire and relatively stable to fly.

#3819880 - 08/08/13 01:33 PM Re: What is the best flight control hardware? [Re: NamelessPFG]  
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Bearcat99 Offline
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Stay away from the X-65. The Warthog is good.. but too pricey if you ask me. I recommend a Saitek X-52 Pro as a stick and some Saitek Pro Flight pedals. I don't know how accurate this ad is or if it is a mistake but at Walmart it looks like an X-52 Pro at the price of an X-52.. Saitek X-52 Pro @ X-52 price at Walmart.. ?.

For the cost of one Warthog ($429 was the lowest I found it going for..) you could get an X-52 Pro $137, Saitek Pro Flight pedals $104 and a TIR 5 $150 and some pedals and still have money left over. The X-52 Pro as the best overall bang for the buck. CH gear is nice as far as throttle & sticks go and worth considering .. but the design is over a decade old and their pedals are spaced kind of tight and the ones I had wound up dieing on me.. so I got Saitek Pro Flights and I prefer the Saiteks because they are wider spaced they are smoother.. I guess that is because of the resolution as Sokol mentioned but they are IMO better pedals. If/when my Saiteks die I may consider these MFG Crosswind pedals as the last rudder pedals I will probably ever need.

Don't get me wrong.. The Warthog is a great stick from all reviews and a squadmate has one and he loves it.. but a Warthog, pedals and TIR will run you twice as much as with a Saitek.. and the Saitek sticks are not bad as long as you don't abuse it.

The Saitek SST software is simple to use if you take the time to learn it which shouldn't be too time consuming.



Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
#3820100 - 08/08/13 09:30 PM Re: What is the best flight control hardware? [Re: Ardu]  
Joined: Mar 2011
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ZG26_Emil Offline
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ZG26_Emil  Offline
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Posts: 481
Cheshire....Ok stockport
Warthog is ok, it's big heavy but the throttle unit is designed for DCS A-10 and not CLOD. I has the MSFFB2 which was great in IL2, as CLOD didn't like it I got rid and bought the warthog but it wasn't the best purchace I've ever made. I also got saitket pro pedals which are great.


Formerly JG5_Emil
#3820106 - 08/08/13 09:56 PM Re: What is the best flight control hardware? [Re: Ardu]  
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,080
kestrel79 Offline
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kestrel79  Offline
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Wisconsin, USA
I would go x52 pro for a ww2 sim. All the dials on it are great for the trim in a prop aircraft. Plus changing all the button colors is pretty cool. I have most of mine set to red and it looks badass. It can get a little sticky but I used some silicone grease on mine and it really helped the smoothness.


Intel i5 2500k // Asus P8P67 // 16GB G.Skill RAM // RX480 8GB // 27" monitor // VKB Black Mamba Mk.III // Warthog Throttle // TFRP Pedals // W7
#3820185 - 08/09/13 01:42 AM Re: What is the best flight control hardware? [Re: Ardu]  
Joined: Feb 2011
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Royraiden Offline
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Royraiden  Offline
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I use a CH Combatstick in addition to a X-52 throttle and CH rudder pedals and that satisfies all my simming needs.The CH stuff has an old looking design but the precision and built quality are excellent, you wont be dissapointed. Also, if you are considering CH for WW2 I would suggest the Combatstick over the Fighterstick for the sole reason that the first one has a big red button where your thumb rests that is perfect for shooting cannons.The fighterstick on the other hand has another hat switch in the same position which I found really annoying and with two hat switches on the Combatstick plus another one on the X-52 throttle I dont see any need to go for another one.Also I chose the X-52 throttle over the CH pro throttle simply because of ergonomics, the CH has a linear movement instead of an arc like movement of the Saitek and the actual form seems more comfortable, plus there are 3 axes knobs that are great for trims,a slider that I use for radiator , a mini joystick and a few more buttons.

The only thing I would change if I could would be to modify the stick to extended enough to be like a real life flight stick and force feedback would be a great addition but I can live without it.

Last edited by Royraiden; 08/09/13 01:44 AM.
#3820362 - 08/09/13 03:25 PM Re: What is the best flight control hardware? [Re: Ardu]  
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 435
Los Offline
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Los  Offline
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Posts: 435
At our house we have four full blown flying stations.

My main rig is a TM Warthog and no I don't think it is overkill as if you are flying full real il2 CLOD you have the whole start up procedure, gyros etc to work with and it's nice to have all those switches right at your fingertips. Its also nice w the split throttle for Prop pitch. The stick feels great as well. I also use the newer Saitek combat rudder pedals and they are hands down the nicest ones. At our house we have two TIR 5s w the vector expansion and one TIR 3 and the 5s are the way to go. I also have a CH throttle quadrant, which I have mapped the radiators and extra trims. The tension on these units is sufficient that you could get by wit minimal control axis scaling adjustment if you wanted.

My oldest sons station uses CH gear with an extra Saitek TPM for pitches, radiators and trims. He has a pair of CH pedals and a TIR 5. Again a nice set up has everything he needs. The CH pedals in all cases, while reliable, are a little lose and require some dead zone and scaling to keep from rubber banding around.

We have a spare flying set up. I have my old TM cougar on it, but the stick has pot issues so I have plugged in a Saitek Cyborg for eth stick but use the Cougar Throttle and CH pro pedals. It's a little rattly but works fine and with three extra axes between the Throttle and the Cyborg, pitch radiator and trim or accounted for. There a TIR 3 on tat which gets a bit wonky at times.

At the bottom of the list is my ten year old sons rig. He has a nice set up using the cheap Thrust master HOTAS X, (he has small hands and this works fine) a Saitek TPM for pitch trim radiator etc. He has rudder pedals but is too short to reach them comfortably so uses the twist on the stick and uses the hat for views. I will point at that he has flown spits on full realism with this rig and in our LAN multiplayer battles seems none the worse for wear with it.


My point is several options would work well. I do think the Saitek Combat rudder pedals are superior to CH pedals if you can afford them. The TM Warthog rig with all the special switches means less keyboard hunting and pecking during full real flight ops. To me one of the most important upgrades is that TIR 5 wit vector expansion.

Hope that helps Cheers

Los

#3820458 - 08/09/13 06:18 PM Re: What is the best flight control hardware? [Re: Ardu]  
Joined: Dec 2002
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Chivas Offline
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Chivas  Offline
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Posts: 4,024
B.C. Canada
The best joystick IMHO for flying and putting bullets on target is the Microsoft MSFF2 still available on ebay.

I started with the MSFF2, and since bought the X52, CH , Cougar, Logitech G940, and WartHog. I threw the X52 in the garbage. The CH was very robust, but its clunky gimbals made putting bullets on target slightly harder than the MS. The Cougar joystick was also very heavy and clunky, but the Cougar Throttle and Foxy software was very good. Infact the throttle is by far the best throttle on the market. I next bought the G940, but it has a software/bug that reverses axis around the center which also made accuracy a little more difficult. Otherwise the G940 wasn't a bad setup. My personal Warthog had some bugs, so I sent it back, as I still preferred the MSFF2 joystick, Cougar Throttle, and Saitek Pro Rudder pedal setup. That's my experience anyway.

Track IR is a must and currently unmatched for flight sim immersion. That said the Oculus Rift should increase immersion level ten fold over Track IR. Everyone who's tried the OR were blown away by the immersion level.

I've personally put my search for a new monitor on hold. When the Oculus Rift comes out it will provide a very large FOV, atleast 1080P resolution, and 3D better than any 1080P 3D monitor on the market. Not only that but I'm guessing its head positional tracking software will have even lower latency than my TrackIR 5. They are working on software that will not only track your head, but predict where its going to even lower any possible latency. They are working very hard of positional tracking latency, as its one of the main causes of most peoples issues with nausea.

Last edited by Chivas; 08/09/13 06:21 PM.

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EVGA GTX980Ti
Oculus Rift
LG 37" LCD
BLack Mamba III Joystick
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Saitek Pro Rudder pedals
Voice Activation Controls
#3898342 - 01/20/14 02:43 AM Re: What is the best flight control hardware? [Re: Ardu]  
Joined: Aug 2008
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Rumpelhardt Offline
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Rumpelhardt  Offline
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Maine
I was going through x-45s and an x-52 at a rate of about1 every 6-8 months. I finally got fed up and bought CH Products gear. That was about 6 years ago. Not one single issue since.


Resident Bitter Clinger
#4030668 - 11/02/14 05:02 PM Re: What is the best flight control hardware? [Re: Ardu]  
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,175
Gunnyhighway Offline
Move, Strike, Protect
Gunnyhighway  Offline
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San Diego, CA
I have a Thrusmaster HOTAS Wartog with the throttle and the Saitek aluminum pedals. I fly in COD atag. I like the throttle bloc because I mapped out all the command for the engine and wing moving panels (flaps, edge slats)on that bloc. Beside, they are 2 distinct throttles on that bloc which allows me to play with twin engines faster. On another hand I have fun with it in any flight sim I game, so I think it was a wise choice to get myself one. a one time purchase. I bought it a long time ago, and haven't purchased any others since.


Fluctuat Nec Mergitur

This is not the bars that keep the Tiger in the cage, this is the space between the bars.
#4142808 - 07/04/15 12:45 PM Re: What is the best flight control hardware? [Re: Ardu]  
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Maico Offline
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Maico  Offline
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Well, as we all know it comes down to the Saitek in this corner vs the Warthog. Having had both, and if I am talking to a new guy... NO choice, go with a X-52 Pro. This is a great way to get into flying sims. Its software is something I like. I am now on an X55 and I would still say X52 Pro is the best I used. I like my Warthog but... Its high maintenance and out of the box it needs mods. I don't recommend it to someone who just wants to fly.
I also have another point of view. Your first year in a serious Sim like this, you will just die a lot. Get a Logitech 30 dollar stick and learn how to fly. If you stick with it for 6 months, then graduate to an X52 Pro. Saitek Pro Pedals Rock and if my TIR 5 was to quit working, I would find something else to do until I could get another one. That's why I keep a spare lol.


Maico
i7 5930 @4.2Ghz
EVGA GTX1080 8GB Hybrid
DDR4 3000 x 32Gig
Fatal1ty x99x Mother
LG 34"UC97 Curved
Ultra Wide 3440x1440
TiR5, Thrustmaster Warthog,
Slaw Device Bf-109 Pedals

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