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#3808750 - 07/13/13 01:39 AM Thrustmaster HOTAS COUGAR...is it worth it??  
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BlackEagle Offline
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Hello all,

I have a question for the community and I want to hear from as many as possible no matter what flight system you use.

Question: I have 2 TM HOTAS COUGARS (long story) and 1 Elite Rudder Pedals system, both COUGARS are broken, I'm debating repairing them and selling them to get a different system. Or should I repair and keep them? When they were working I had a very hard time controlling my a/c's flight path (yaw, pitch & roll) I mostly fly IL2 & the Wings Over series. I would calibrate & recalibrate the system but could never really fly straight & level at a set throttle setting (for IL2 I know you have to trim the a/c). Landing was especially hard with the nose pitching up & down at low speed. My computer runs XP sp3 and now that the WARTHOG is out TM no longer supports the COUGAR with updates.

I'm considering Saitek X-65 flight system with rudder pedals, Logitech G940 flight system or CH Products flight system.

So please any/all suggestions, comments, ideas, opinions will be considered.

Thanks
BlackEagle

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#3808826 - 07/13/13 06:46 AM Re: Thrustmaster HOTAS COUGAR...is it worth it?? [Re: BlackEagle]  
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Aullido Offline
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Well,

I think a Cougar with IJ's mod is the best WWII joystick out there, very expensive but worth every penny. You can choose a more economic mod also.

I would not sell the Cougars, there is too much potential with Target. Not sure, but maybe you already have a dual throttle right there using Target. The Cougar throttle is really nice for a WWII sim, those pots are really great for trimming.

Remember that the Cougar is not longer produced.

#3808870 - 07/13/13 12:20 PM Re: Thrustmaster HOTAS COUGAR...is it worth it?? [Re: BlackEagle]  
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Bluedeath Offline
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I suggest the fcc3 or the fssb over the x65 (is well built bur the cougar is still a better beast)


"When you plan revenge best dig two graves" Confucius
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" Benjamin Franklin
#3808903 - 07/13/13 02:33 PM Re: Thrustmaster HOTAS COUGAR...is it worth it?? [Re: BlackEagle]  
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CyBerkut Offline
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BlackEagle, I wouldn't think that you would want to go to a non-moving force sensing X-65F for primarily WWII sim flying.

Apparently, Logitech has stopped making the G940.

It sounds like you're better off either fixing a Cougar, or going with CH Products. Or get a Warthog if you want the dual throttle.

Since you are already a rudder pedal user, it seems unlikely you would be happy doing without any now. That points toward fixing a Cougar, to keep your Elite Rudder Pedals functional and accessible to the same profiling software as your HOTAS... otherwise, you're looking at buying new USB pedals, too, or using a USB adapter that will not lend itself to being addressed by your profiling software.

What are your priorities? Economy? Common profiling software? Split throttle control? Etc.?

#3809564 - 07/15/13 01:01 AM Re: Thrustmaster HOTAS COUGAR...is it worth it?? [Re: CyBerkut]  
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BlackEagle Offline
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Well CyBerkut, if you put it that way,

-Common profiling software
-Economy
-Split throttle control...not as important

So I guess it better/wiser to repair both COUGARS.

Thanks to those who responded and if anyone else has a comment please include it.

BlackEagle

#3809642 - 07/15/13 07:43 AM Re: Thrustmaster HOTAS COUGAR...is it worth it?? [Re: BlackEagle]  
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Warmbrak Offline
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Western Australia
After the Cougar, the next best thing is the Warthog. The Warthog is really a step up. If you have the money, get a Warthog. I can't speak for the Saitek, but a mate of mine picked up the Saitek because he didn't want to wait for the Warthog back then. He ended up getting rid of the Saitek to get a Warthog in any case.

#3809793 - 07/15/13 04:11 PM Re: Thrustmaster HOTAS COUGAR...is it worth it?? [Re: BlackEagle]  
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Falstar Offline
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Fix them both, keep one, sell one.

#3809887 - 07/15/13 06:58 PM Re: Thrustmaster HOTAS COUGAR...is it worth it?? [Re: BlackEagle]  
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- Ice Offline
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As an owner of two Cougars and having sold forward a third Cougar, I must say that I've never had much problems with the joystick. My problems usually come from the ANT and RNG rotaries. However, for some reason, when the rotaries were acting up, they would influence the X/Y axis of the joystick and the game would register inputs from the joystick even though the stick was not physically moving. Personally, I would keep the Cougars as I've got projects planned for them and it may be difficult to get my hands on these in the future. HOwever, in your case, you are flying older aircraft so you may be better off with a different setup?

I think the question here is whether you would want to tinker with your Cougars to get them fixed or if you want to just buy something that works. If it's the former, problem solved. If it's the latter, I would recommend a TM Warthog or the CH line.

As for rudder, I have the Saitek Pro Flight rudders and aside from mapping the toe brakes to each individual pedal, I've not had any need for any "profiling software" as I do this straight on the game itself.


- Ice
#3810453 - 07/16/13 09:10 PM Re: Thrustmaster HOTAS COUGAR...is it worth it?? [Re: BlackEagle]  
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JohnnyChemo Offline
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Fix 'em both, sell one and use the proceeds to get a U2NXT from IJ. Smooths out the center of the stick esp. and keeps the stick silky smooth throughout its range. I'd also get a Hall sensor for the throttle while you are at it.

You might find adjusting your axes can go a long way toward smoothing out the response. For IL2, I have the axes set so it isn't very sensitive at all in the center, which allows for finer tuning in gunnery, and it helps a lot with landing as well. You've got a great piece of kit (TWO of them, no less), don't give up on it too early!

Last edited by JohnnyChemo; 07/16/13 09:11 PM. Reason: Apparently I can't spell.

Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.
This is known as "bad luck.”
-Robert Heinlein
#3811482 - 07/19/13 12:08 AM Re: Thrustmaster HOTAS COUGAR...is it worth it?? [Re: BlackEagle]  
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BlackEagle Offline
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Thanks everyone for your input/comments/opinions/advice, etc.

It looks like I'll keep & repair them.

#3813272 - 07/23/13 11:39 AM Re: Thrustmaster HOTAS COUGAR...is it worth it?? [Re: BlackEagle]  
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Rivet Offline
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I can heartily recommend Johnny Chemo's suggestion. Once you have a Cougar with IJ's U2NXT mod installed, you won't look back. Couple that with the throttle mods also from IJ and the Cougar's "Foxy" programming software and you have an extremely formidable control system.

I'm very happy with mine. The only downside is that there is no force feedback but I can live without that.

#4070358 - 01/28/15 12:55 AM Re: Thrustmaster HOTAS COUGAR...is it worth it?? [Re: BlackEagle]  
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BlackEagle Offline
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Hi folks,

I know this thread is old but my question is still relevant now that there was a new development. I contacted IJ about his mods for the TM HOTAS COUGAR (back in Nov) and he informed me there was not enough interest to restart a production run of the parts I need frown and the website he directed me to is no longer around (frugalsrefugees.com). So Im asking the community for help/suggestions/input/opinions/advice. I can not (at this time) afford the TM WARTHOG, another option Im considering (again) is the Saitek Pro Flight X-55 Rhino HOTAS along with the Pro Flight Rudder Pedals. I have not been flying for over six months and Im VERY FRUSTRATED!!! I know this may sound like the original thread I started but I dont know what else to do?

Ive included pics of the current problems I have and Ive tried contacting TM thru their tech support (by email) have not received a responce (its been two weeks now)

Thanks






Last edited by BlackEagle; 01/28/15 01:20 AM.
#4070485 - 01/28/15 10:06 AM Re: Thrustmaster HOTAS COUGAR...is it worth it?? [Re: BlackEagle]  
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KeyCat Offline
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Hi Eagle,

Sorry to see your Cougar in such state and have no good advice on what to do... But I wanted to ask if this damage is after "normal" use of the sticks or did they experience some accident or something?

/KC


>> It's all about teamwork! <<
#4070554 - 01/28/15 02:15 PM Re: Thrustmaster HOTAS COUGAR...is it worth it?? [Re: BlackEagle]  
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Sokol1 Offline
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Try with Bauer, I think that he can make a Designer One base (Ball bearings, steel profiles, ways better that this cheap Zamac used in Cougar gimbal) for this joystick:

http://avia-sim.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?t=601&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30

And have option for MagRez (Magnetic angle sensor - similar to HALL sensor) to replace pot's.



#4070980 - 01/29/15 02:51 AM Re: Thrustmaster HOTAS COUGAR...is it worth it?? [Re: BlackEagle]  
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NamelessPFG Offline
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I've never heard of a Baur BRD gimbal being mounted in anything besides a Saitek X-52 Pro base, but given how a certain joystick engineering dude I know considers Baur's cam centering-based design the best possible out of all approaches, it's safe to say that a BRD gimbal for the Cougar could give the U2-NXT and Evenstrain a run for their (discontinued) money.

Also, if you want a honest hierarchy: stock Cougar < stock Warthog < modded Cougar. The Warthog stick's stock gimbal has some annoying stiction issues, and I've also seen a few complaints about a critical part of its assembly breaking apart. Machined metal gimbals like the usual Cougar mods or the VKB Black Mamba are on a whole 'nother level of quality.

I'd say the Cougars are definitely worth fixing up if you have the means to do so!

#4071952 - 01/31/15 01:06 AM Re: Thrustmaster HOTAS COUGAR...is it worth it?? [Re: BlackEagle]  
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Sokol1 Offline
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VKB "Upgrade mechanics joystick Defender Cobra M5" (metal, ball bearings) and MaRS sensors can be used for upgrade Cougar:

http://forum.vkb-sim.pro/download/file.php?id=1735&mode=view
http://www.vkb-flightsimcontrols.com/zakaz/index_z.php (Prices in US dolar).

From their forum, answering a Cougar owner (http://forum.vkb-sim.pro/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1675):

Quote:

Submit a request here: http://www.vkb-flightsimcontrols.com/

Needed:

1) Upgrade mechanics for Cobra ($160)
2) Adapter for connecting the handle to the mechanics of Cougar. (Mamba adapter for Cougar or Warthog grip) ($25)
3) MaRS sensor - 2 pieces (in a note, analog, for Cougar* ) ($13 each = $26).

What you have to do:

1) Insert the Cougar handle on the adapter
2) Make a hole in the hull Cougar for installation mechanics (this is the hardest)
3) Soldering sensor and Cougar handle cables to the connector.


* The standard MaRS output is done in digital mode - not compatible with Cougar controller - so is need order with output in analog mode.

#4072412 - 02/01/15 04:33 PM Re: Thrustmaster HOTAS COUGAR...is it worth it?? [Re: BlackEagle]  
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BlackEagle Offline
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Hi folks,

Sorry it took a while to get back to you (life happened again!)

Ok,

1. I did get a response from Thurstmaster, sent them pics (same as above) and my info, said they will email me prices and parts availability.

2. KeyCat - Yes, the damage is a result of normal use. I also have a 2nd Cougar flightstick (bought used 10yrs ago) with same normal use wear.

3. Troll - Yes, it is a pic of the Cougar gimble and I would be interested in the stock gimble you have.

4. SokoL1 - Thank you for the info, clicked on the ink uhm...WOW! very nice setup, only problem site is in Russian don't know if my computer (HP Pavilion w/WinXP SP3) can convert site to English)That setup would be very interesting to try.

5. NamelessPFG - Thanks for the encouragement! Will definitely try to repair both Cougars as I get more info about different upgrade mods.

As for the TQS, I will get that part from TM.

THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR INPUT/INFORMATION

Black Eagle

Last edited by BlackEagle; 02/01/15 05:38 PM.
#4072425 - 02/01/15 05:12 PM Re: Thrustmaster HOTAS COUGAR...is it worth it?? [Re: BlackEagle]  
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KeyCat Offline
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Originally Posted By: BlackEagle
Yes, the damage is a result of normal use. I also have a 2nd Cougar flightstick (bought used 10yrs ago)with same normal use wear.


Can't belive they sold it with such crappy metal! Another thing I really don't undestand is why Thrustmaster refused to sell softer springs (50% or maybe 33% and 66% softer) to the Cougar? Beside helping with the wear and tear it would made the Cougar more usable for WWII and helicopter simulators.

I've asked before but ask agin. Does anyone know if softer replacement springs exists somewhere on this planet?

/KC


>> It's all about teamwork! <<
#4072689 - 02/02/15 05:22 AM Re: Thrustmaster HOTAS COUGAR...is it worth it?? [Re: BlackEagle]  
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NamelessPFG Offline
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I hear the U2-NXT and Evenstrain mods inherently have a softer feel to them. It's probably like my VKB Black Mamba, ridiculously smooth and easy to move throughout. Unfortunately, they're not easy to come by.

Trust me, you don't want to just replace the springs on those cheap pot metal gimbals. You're better off replacing the gimbal entirely, expensive as it may be.

#4072774 - 02/02/15 02:21 PM Re: Thrustmaster HOTAS COUGAR...is it worth it?? [Re: BlackEagle]  
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KeyCat Offline
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I'm aware that U2-NXT have different spring system but mine is already moded with UberCougar Gimbal and +HS3 Hall Sensors. Just want softer springs and I'm sure I'm not the only one...

/KC


>> It's all about teamwork! <<
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