PLAs military gumshoes



This guys dont shoe boots or shoes they shoe gumshoes


Ammo belt for SKS-45 (Type-56) carabine.

Canadian reconstructors in type-65 uniform

I am not very interesting too about this DLC.

Generally speaking, PLA is good at light infantry tactics because they lack of heavy weapon in history, but I like stories in WWII, especially the battle with many heavy weapons, such as Falaise pocket, winter storm in 1942, and battles in Balaton.

Welcome to the free market Andrey ;-)))) That's how capitalism works, people vote with their money about what they want the most. In the bad old days of Soviet Communism the state decided what people would want the most...

Seriously , I think Graviteam could offer a choice of various possible DLCs scenarios that Graviteam would want to make and poll players on this forum or others to see which one would actually generate the most interest/sales.

The Vietnam war, for example, offers examples of small to mid size scale tank battles involving tanks that Graviteam already has available from it's various Steel Armour Blaze of Fury or the Hooper dlcs.. The M-60, the T-54/55, T-62 etc.

One such battle was Ben Het Battle of Ben Het

The Battle of Ben Het was one of the few engagements during the Vietnam War in which tanks were pitted against tanks.

On March 3, 1969, North Vietnamese forces from the 4th Armored Battalion, 202nd Armored Regiment, attacked US forces from the 1st Battalion, 69th Armor at a training camp near Ben Het in South Vietnam.

The North Vietnamese had between 10 and 19 PT-76 tanks. The Americans had several M48A3 Patton tanks.

One M48 was hit by a PT-76, but it did not suffer much damage.

Two PT-76s were destroyed by M48s. A third PT-76 exploded when it struck a mine.

It would all be true if we were doing in the first place to make money. But then neither wargames or tank simulators is not worth doing at all.


Of course no polls, sorry.




These are all great ideas, but they are lacking one very small, but very important aspect - where they will take, that is, Who will pay for the production of the desired content. Without answering this question, such proposals do not make no sense at practice.

Here, for example, who pay for purchase the rights to SF or SABOW from publishers so that we can at least think about doing something for this games. Who will pay for the models and content, which needed for the Vietnam War in big quantities. Show me the finger at this man?

I want to buy GTMF too.

More heavy weapon, more interesting !

Such questions as how much money to buy back rights? Or WHY bother and start fresh. What about odd ball money raising to do something? Kickstarter on a dime. ya you need a few talented folks who are pretty much willing to work for next to nothing and make a few bucks on the back end for their work. You need legit copys and knowledge of at least max and photoshop. You need people who can deliver on what they say they can. You need people to buy the dang thing if it makes it that far. THATS a big one as the deck is stacked to never get anywhere due to publishers and no advertising budget. Then there is everyone (if funded by something like kickstarter has THEIR own idea of what they want to see the end result as. OF course due to international considerations of law and that crap, a lot of these kickstarter type things require certain nationalities be involved. ANd likely unforeseen things like contracting with various 3rd partys to make assets that either you can not or have no time for but need.

For a niche product even if successful getting some financing it will not likely be enough to cover any sort of pay roll. At best I see capital investment in a few copys of to damned expensive software (if needed), a few cups of coffee and a sandwich. OH and a lot of raised cash would end up going to attempting to get publisher to pick up and sell the created content. IN this case you also have Graviteam with their vision for their product. It is probably different than 70 percent of likely folks that would go with odd ball thing.

other concepts to do things for GTOS or the missing tank sim...wink wink. Require a legit 3rd party system to allow that party to make a bit O cash for a cheese Danish and a coffee. But so far NO one that has attempted to do any thing like this has survived long enough (its the time and no money IMO) to reach completion. In my case with longstop I did not truelly get what was needed to get to finished state at a Graviteam quality level. ONe guy in maybe 2 years could get there. But unless they have bags O cash or some odd ball living arrangement, well just not good.

In the end K42 and SABOW where controlled by publishers. Both got unlucky as hell. Gtos/Apos has been more successful for Graviteam. And they control it. Does anyone know how many copies of SABOW (even in that stupid unpatched version of UIG) sold. THat there KILLED it game press largly. Although some good reviews even with that moron crash bug that UIG never fixed. Although GRavi fixed it in 2 weeks in unofficial capacity.


Just to toot my own horn a bit. LOL. A pathetic few of my models you are seeing in GTOS hooper and prophet (SABOW too in unofficial patch) are mine. Makes me happy. But have not made a cent off any of them. Graviteams scale of finance is niche, small, and more for the love of it I think. For them to do MORE requires something... And I do not know WTF that is. Still, they make good stuff. So much time and enjoyment of k42/k43/APOS/GTOS/SABOW. ANd if they did get a bag of cash....I think they should use it on multiplayer. Just saying.

It is important to make a profit / cost ratio was greater than one.
For Zhalanashkol is likely to be that case, for Vietnam with a high probability no.
Of course in wargame/tank simulator setting. This will mean that the first will be and second is not.

I'm talking only about payback in a reasonable time (not more than half year).




It requires a relatively large audience that does not present. And now KS focus changed from "all chipped on something that is interesting" to "beg for money at a strange promises". We has not yet agreed for second.

If you have to BEG.....pass. Well how much cash is needed anyways? I don't know, you guys have a few hard core fans... POint them in right direction. But likely comes to nothing.


edited to delete out WWWWWW due to me hitting my stupid config on my toe brake.

Let's assume for the game should be suspended 10K (its not real and very vary but only example) directly in the pocket of the developer.
If we ask for the same amount at the KS is that we get if all ok?

5-7% is cut by Amazon/KS, approximately 30-50% of the intermediary will be taken (as we ourselves did not get there), ~30% taxes, something promised to those who give money - posters, souvenirs, etc. This is 50% of the remainder.

9500->6200->4000->2K we get (in best case w/o banking and other misc)

If we look realistically, the maximum that can be RAW collected under the wargame or tank simulator is 20K, well in best case, maybe 25-30K.
Its totally no sence at all.

Yes indeed. So to get amount of needed funding 100000 dollars gets you 20000 dollars . Which is not going to happen. Going back to waiting for publisher to order something or game assets fall from the sky. Or something insane like take HUGE risk and go out of business. If only you had a good western publisher. But it seems to be that most wargame publishers are still making games in the 20 years ago fashion. Or at least the mold of 13 years ago. GTOS does nothing but make whatever their flag ship product look BAD. Why publish something that makes your line up look like what it is....retro gaming.

On the tank sim front. History has shown poor performer for awhile now. But then you have things like WOT and now war thunder (someday tanks). While not a sim, it seems like would generate interest in a tank sim. In which case you are left with........OH MY k42 (for ww2).......sabow (for 60-80....and steel beasts.....(modern and price point to high IMO.) AND freaking flight sim guys are starting to dream up doing tank sims in there flight engines. Which IMO will NEVER be as good as focused mechanized warfare. It is completely different if done correctly.

So 2 of the 3 are dead due to publisher rights. SO SAD. I remember finding t72 Balkins on fire on the SHELF of a game store. Geeezzzz how times have changed for the worse on that one. You could walk in and see things on the shelf and go WTF is that. Now you have to look or listen to suggestions on forums to find the small awesome things.

And relic is releasing main stream APOS clone LOL. Ok I call it that, but is of course NOT. Silly Relic...GO MAKE HOMEWORLD FOR SMART PEOPLE 2014!



This whole situation pisses me off BTW.

T72 BOf on Steam from spring 2013 .

Due to the fact that in certain tanksims all things is low-budget and in its infancy, in not mainstream is not possible to develop. But publishers sell games 10 years old as new. It turns out that the genre is in fact dead. WOT did not add any players to the simulators, as a nothing matter to the tanks or to the simulators, and what skins fastened on the orcs and elves, it's so unimportant.


In wargames and flight sims not so bad. Mainstream is not so invalid, new IPs may appears, publishers or investors do not look at the wargame developers as mentally retarded, as in the case of tank simulators (about flighttsims not know ) And we can see a specific interest in the players side.

Even if its "unpopular theme" for DLC like this - 1885 views, but even not introduced beta version

Great, I expect more, Steam is a very popular platform of game retaier.

Here is a example of flight sims selling on Steam, http://store.steampowered.com/app/63970/ , the famous IL2!

At first its example of big publisher's game (1C/Softclub - main and biggest publisher in Eastern Europe) that sell on Steam, simulator or not it does not matter.

We dont publisher (big or even small) and do not plan to become. No sense to give such examples, they are meaningless.

LOL I just found my BOF disk too. mUhahaaha. Getting BOF on steam is good. While its old now, it is certainly better than ARMA tanks. I have fond memory's of getting blown up with the supped up Sherman in the 1st mission. Oh and hunting t34's with my t55. And that trench digging function was GREAT. That I missed badly in SABOW. Deploy that little bulldozer thing and instant dug in tank.


That real time vehicle digging feature...that would be nice in GTOS and sabow BTW. With this DLC of USSR and China, ya not thrilled with the location, BUT the MI4 and sks rifles are vary nice additions to game. Yugoslavia ...that is not a bad idea at all for GTOS DLC. But there we go again..... So much odd ball equipment used. Everything from t72, bmp2, to freaken t34's, shermans, even M10 tank destroyers. What did they do, raid a museum. And just a nasty conflict all around.

Not SKS - Type 56 rifle, Type 56 RPG, and Type 56 and SKS chest rigs

Andrey, Graviteam made maps for the Angolan battles in SABOW which could serve with some modifications as basis for a Vietnam DLC as the 2 contries have similar tropical climates and vegetations. You already modelled M60s and Soviet armour for SABOW which again could be used for such a scenario. I think it would probably be more visible in the gaming community than a small Soviet-Chinese border conflict...Just my opinion.

Except m60 was never deployed there. They all went to Europe or stayed state side. The 2 US tanks used by US there where M48 and at the end the m551 Sheridan light tank. ARVN used the M41 walker bulldog as well....one of my FAV tanks of all time BTW. But all the US CAV units that deployed to SE Asia turned in their M41's for M113's. Which they pimped out as the M113 ACAV with MG's all over it and some with 106mm M40 recoiless rifles.

I said way back that ACAV m113 would be a vary interesting subject for something. But I was thinking sim on that. But something about an APC with .50 cal MG with gun shield/turret armor, 1 or 2 M60 MGs with gun shields, some with m40 recoiless, an m79 40mm grenade launcher, and law rockets in a pimped out APC fighting in a jungle would make a GREAT subject for a DLC to sabow.....which can not happen now =(. BTW that was what the vehicle was suppose to be equipped with in the CAV units. Basically 4 or 5 guys, an APC, and ALOT of firepower. What is crazy is how successful they where with these things. They used them VARY aggressively. But a lot of these units where use to M41 light tanks and tactics.

Angolan map absolutely is not tropical, is a savannah


What is except light guns, such ZU-23, M-40 and B-10 already modelled?
We need 2 sides (soldiers and light guns), new season content for landscape, many new vehicles - its new game with big budget.



Maybe, but we have practically none of any content to do it. One can argue long it will be better or not, the good of it is not - it can not appear in principle, therefore missing DLC in an infinite number of times worse than it is (without respect to subjects).