Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Hop To
#3791073 - 06/02/13 11:01 PM What is this?  
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 15,827
Mace71 Offline
Dread pirate Mace
Mace71  Offline
Dread pirate Mace
Veteran

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 15,827
Darlington, UK.
Anyone know what this is on top of this scope? Looks like a lamp but don't know how practical that would be. It's an Australian soldier on the Korean War. Also, quite a modern-ish looking scope for the early 50's.



Antec 902 | Intel i7 920 2.66Ghz OC'd to 3.40GHz | MSI GeForce GTX 660 Black Knight 2048MB GDDR5 | Corsair 6GB DDR3 | Coolermaster V8 CPU Cooler | W7 64

"There is only one way to avoid criticism: do nothing, say nothing and be nothing." Aristotle
Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#3791074 - 06/02/13 11:03 PM Re: What is this? [Re: Mace71]  
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 24,029
oldgrognard Offline
Administrator
oldgrognard  Offline
Administrator
Lifer

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 24,029
USA
It is an active IR scope on an M1 Carbine. Early night vision device. Used an IR light and and receiver.

Similar to this:

http://www.gunscollecting.com/english/scopes/nsp-2-infrared-sniper-scope/

Look at the last illustration with StG44 :

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/german-infrared-night-vision-devices-infrarot-scheinwerfer.htm

Last edited by oldgrognard; 06/02/13 11:12 PM.

Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
#3791080 - 06/02/13 11:12 PM Re: What is this? [Re: Mace71]  
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 15,827
Mace71 Offline
Dread pirate Mace
Mace71  Offline
Dread pirate Mace
Veteran

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 15,827
Darlington, UK.
Thanks, interesting that just a few years after WW2 they had moved along so fast. Also, is that a DIY foregrip or were they commonplace then?


Antec 902 | Intel i7 920 2.66Ghz OC'd to 3.40GHz | MSI GeForce GTX 660 Black Knight 2048MB GDDR5 | Corsair 6GB DDR3 | Coolermaster V8 CPU Cooler | W7 64

"There is only one way to avoid criticism: do nothing, say nothing and be nothing." Aristotle
#3791082 - 06/02/13 11:17 PM Re: What is this? [Re: Mace71]  
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 24,029
oldgrognard Offline
Administrator
oldgrognard  Offline
Administrator
Lifer

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 24,029
USA
It is more than a vertical grip. It is the control for the IR light.

Here is more on that. Specifically it is a US M1 or M3 scope. If you look around in this link you can see a few examples.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Us+m...e&FORM=IGRE


Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
#3791113 - 06/03/13 12:35 AM Re: What is this? [Re: Mace71]  
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 11,242
Coot Offline
Pilgrim
Coot  Offline
Pilgrim
Veteran

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 11,242
These United States of America
Very interesting. Thank you both. I've always liked the M-1 carbine (would like to own one) and mixed with at the time new tech is pretty cool looking. Looks a bit awkward though and as though it would be top heavy.


John 10:1-30
Romans 10:1-13

#3791123 - 06/03/13 01:04 AM Re: What is this? [Re: Mace71]  
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,849
Falstar Offline
Senior Member
Falstar  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,849
Edina, MN 55439
I had no idea that they had them during the invasion of Okinawa.

#3791126 - 06/03/13 01:11 AM Re: What is this? [Re: Mace71]  
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 24,029
oldgrognard Offline
Administrator
oldgrognard  Offline
Administrator
Lifer

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 24,029
USA
Here is some better info I found on it.


http://ugca.org/07jan/night.htm


Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
#3791127 - 06/03/13 01:15 AM Re: What is this? [Re: Mace71]  
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 9,163
Murphy Offline
Administrator
Murphy  Offline
Administrator
Hotshot

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 9,163
Northern Michigan, USA
Really interesting that they were that far advanced back then.
Too bad they didn't put up the cash to arm the rest of the troops with that gear.
Would have saved some lives I'm thinking.
But maybe it was a little delicate or too complex at first.

Really interesting that they even had access to that technology back then.
Had no idea.


"Murphy's Law"
#3791129 - 06/03/13 01:21 AM Re: What is this? [Re: Mace71]  
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 24,029
oldgrognard Offline
Administrator
oldgrognard  Offline
Administrator
Lifer

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 24,029
USA
The Germans were using it in The Bulge.


Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
#3791131 - 06/03/13 01:26 AM Re: What is this? [Re: Mace71]  
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 24,029
oldgrognard Offline
Administrator
oldgrognard  Offline
Administrator
Lifer

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 24,029
USA
In the middle is my HK93 with a Gen 1+ night vision scope. It is Passive (Starlight - amplifies existing light) with an Active IR illuminator if there is no existing light. Big disadvantage of Active is that someone else using Night Vision can see you illuminator just like you were shining a flashlight.




Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
#3791135 - 06/03/13 01:49 AM Re: What is this? [Re: Mace71]  
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 22,854
Rick.50cal Offline
Lifer
Rick.50cal  Offline
Lifer

Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 22,854

Originally Posted By: MaceUK33
Thanks, interesting that just a few years after WW2 they had moved along so fast. Also, is that a DIY foregrip or were they commonplace then?


Every picture I've seen of those early Carbines having night scopes on them, have that same vertical grip. I believe they were all modified that way right from the start, and I believe it was entirely due to the top-heavy weight, and INCREASED weight...to actually hold it to observe a target, without it flopping over a bit.

In the days of the early 1930's Tommy Guns, they seemed to have the forward grips to help control muzzle rise, just as they had a Cutts Compensator on the muzzles...and it works, got to try a full auto one in Las Vegas years ago! Still climbs though, just less than it might otherwise. The military Thompson SMG's had both those features removed: no cutts compensator, no vertical grip, never issued drum mags either AFAIK, and I think there was some stamped parts to reduce the time/cost to manufacture the military version.

In the last number of years, it's become fashionable to include vertical grips on M-4 carbines, and I think this has more to do with simply indexing for a consistent hold, and as use as a "hand stop". But in limited useage it helps with muzzle climb in full auto too. It's just that militaries have reverted away from actually using our rifles on full auto, it's FAR LESS common today than it was in the 1960's, 70's and even 80's IMO.


POLITICS, WAR, ECONOMY, CONTROVERSY! and other heated discussions and debates in the PWEC sub-forum at the bottom of this forum main page. See you there!
#3791137 - 06/03/13 01:51 AM Re: What is this? [Re: Mace71]  
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 24,029
oldgrognard Offline
Administrator
oldgrognard  Offline
Administrator
Lifer

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 24,029
USA
Rick, it is the control switch for the illuminator; that is why it's there. To turn the IR light (illuminator) on and off. Done so that the non-firing hand had an easy way to actuate a switch.


Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
#3791171 - 06/03/13 02:32 AM Re: What is this? [Re: Mace71]  
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 13,215
NH2112 Offline
Veteran
NH2112  Offline
Veteran

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 13,215
Jackman, ME
Quote:
Big disadvantage of Active is that someone else using Night Vision can see you illuminator just like you were shining a flashlight.


Yep, it's why we never used the IR periscope and headlights on our M577 tracks. You might as well have driven with service drive on.


Phil

“The biggest problem people have is they don’t think they’re supposed to have problems.” - Hayes Barnard
#3791178 - 06/03/13 02:40 AM Re: What is this? [Re: Mace71]  
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 11,242
Coot Offline
Pilgrim
Coot  Offline
Pilgrim
Veteran

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 11,242
These United States of America
I've always wondered if they can't use, albeit perhaps limited, form of night vision on those deep submersible dives they make for research. Can't they send out an IR signal to create a source that they can then operate some sort of night vision off of to be able to see more that deep in the ocean?


John 10:1-30
Romans 10:1-13

#3791191 - 06/03/13 02:59 AM Re: What is this? [Re: Mace71]  
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 13,215
NH2112 Offline
Veteran
NH2112  Offline
Veteran

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 13,215
Jackman, ME
If I'm right, IR is even less energetic than visible light, so it won't penetrate as far as visible light does.


Phil

“The biggest problem people have is they don’t think they’re supposed to have problems.” - Hayes Barnard
#3791197 - 06/03/13 03:40 AM Re: What is this? [Re: Mace71]  
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 11,242
Coot Offline
Pilgrim
Coot  Offline
Pilgrim
Veteran

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 11,242
These United States of America
Could the sub launch multiple light sources out for the night vision to pick up on and use?


John 10:1-30
Romans 10:1-13

#3791204 - 06/03/13 04:14 AM Re: What is this? [Re: Mace71]  
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 13,215
NH2112 Offline
Veteran
NH2112  Offline
Veteran

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 13,215
Jackman, ME
I don't see why not, but for a given amount of power the IR would be absorbed at a shorter distance than visible light would. Let's say visible light sources provided usable light at a max range of 100'. IR of the same power would only be usable from perhaps 90'. Or to use my earlier example, let's say both the service drive and IR headlights on the M577 track were 55W. The IR lights won't illuminate as far ahead of the track as the service drive ones would.

Last edited by NH2112; 06/03/13 04:16 AM.

Phil

“The biggest problem people have is they don’t think they’re supposed to have problems.” - Hayes Barnard
#3791223 - 06/03/13 05:24 AM Re: What is this? [Re: Murphy]  
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,187
Damocles Offline
Member
Damocles  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,187
Inverness Scotland
Originally Posted By: Murphy
Really interesting that they were that far advanced back then.
Too bad they didn't put up the cash to arm the rest of the troops with that gear.
Would have saved some lives I'm thinking.
But maybe it was a little delicate or too complex at first.

Really interesting that they even had access to that technology back then.
Had no idea.


From a Grunt's perspective, along with the battery pack, it looks bloomin heavy to be lugging around along with the rest of your kit and I can pretty much guaranty that it doesn't work as well as advertised or when you want or, more importantly, need it. It would not surprise me in the least if it was copied and based on something the Germans had developed during the war, they certainly went to a lot of trouble developing anti-IR paint for their subs, falsely believing the Brit's had developed the vision technology to spot them.

#3791237 - 06/03/13 07:19 AM Re: What is this? [Re: Mace71]  
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 7,747
Ssnake Offline
Virtual Shiva Beast
Ssnake  Offline
Virtual Shiva Beast
Hotshot

Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 7,747
Germoney
Not only were those things heavy, it also made handling the rifle a balancing act. It simply is top-heavy in that configuration, which then tends to tip over to the left or right. Still having one of these per squad was better back then than having none of it. I think the main purpose was to verify that what you heard was just an animal, or actually someone sneaking up on you in the dark. I guess it helped to reduce those cases where someone would shoot into the dark ... just because.


Visit the home of Steel Beasts!
...the ultimate armor sim...
#3791245 - 06/03/13 08:06 AM Re: What is this? [Re: Mace71]  
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,534
Alicatt Offline
Hotshot
Alicatt  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,534
Ice Cold in Alex or Eating in ...
As featured in the Man From UNCLE TV series in the 1960s



Chlanna nan con thigibh a so's gheibh sibh feoil
Sons of the hound come here and get flesh
Clan Cameron

Moderated by  RacerGT 

Quick Search
Recent Articles
Support SimHQ

If you shop on Amazon use this Amazon link to support SimHQ
.
Social


Recent Topics
CD WOFF
by Britisheh. 03/28/24 08:05 PM
Carnival Cruise Ship Fire....... Again
by F4UDash4. 03/26/24 05:58 PM
Baltimore Bridge Collapse
by F4UDash4. 03/26/24 05:51 PM
The Oldest WWII Veterans
by F4UDash4. 03/24/24 09:21 PM
They got fired after this.
by Wigean. 03/20/24 08:19 PM
Grown ups joke time
by NoFlyBoy. 03/18/24 10:34 PM
Anyone Heard from Nimits?
by F4UDash4. 03/18/24 10:01 PM
RIP Gemini/Apollo astronaut Tom Stafford
by semmern. 03/18/24 02:14 PM
Copyright 1997-2016, SimHQ Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0