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#3776494 - 05/02/13 02:31 PM DCS F-15C Landing Bug  
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TGFan Offline
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Hey everyone,

Well after I saw that the landing bug still exists with 1.2.4, I decided to try to make heads or tails out of it yesterday. Bottom line is I couldn't tell what recipe would result in a successful landing versus unsuccessful. Below are 3 videos in order showing results, taken at Kutaisi airfield.

I thought that I'd post the videos just in case there are folks that haven't expereienced this. Maybe some good could come out of mass viewing!







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#3776514 - 05/02/13 03:08 PM Re: DCS F-15C Landing Bug [Re: TGFan]  
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You clearly forgot to turn your physics on! It's that switch on the lower left corner of the dash...

wink


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#3776554 - 05/02/13 04:27 PM Re: DCS F-15C Landing Bug [Re: ArgonV]  
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TGFan Offline
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Originally Posted By: ArgonV
You clearly forgot to turn your physics on! It's that switch on the lower left corner of the dash...

wink


Are you serious?!!!


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#3776588 - 05/02/13 05:18 PM Re: DCS F-15C Landing Bug [Re: TGFan]  
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radicaldude1234 Offline
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It's interesting that landing remains as one of harder aspects of flight to simulate... After all, how do you replicate that sinking feeling that tells you that you're descent rate is too high or that swift kick in the butt (and subsequent jolt up your spin) that allows you to rate your successful landings?

Anyhow, took a quick look at your landing videos and came up with some on-the-fly observations. Note that I don't fly DCS as of yet (computer too slow), but your frustrations seem to mirror my own whilst learning to land in Falcon and in real life (in the mighty Cessna 172).

The first two are somewhat alike, but there are significant differences in the third:

- In the first, you come in well below the standard glide slope on final. That, coupled with a beautiful flare, has you touching down softly.

- In the second, you seem to be on the glide-path and the descent rate is accordingly steeper. However, the flare is again properly executed and the landing is again soft.

- In the last landing, I'm unable to tell the glide slope because of the angle off of the camera. You do seem pretty flat when you touch down, however, the nose attitude is quite a bit lower than in your previous videos. On your touchdown (right before your landing gear buckles), you are pretty close to a 3 point landing (nose gear touching down at the same time as your mains).

- This means either your touchdown speed was too high (necessitating a smaller Angle of Attack for level flight, or your descent rate is too high (you are maintaining the AoA to the relative wind, but your flight path is pointing down at a steeper angle, resulting in a nose low attitude). Both of these would put significantly higher strain on the gear.

- This seems like rather light forces to induce a landing gear failure, but the increased landing stresses appear to simulated in the third landing. So either the DCS team made the Eagle's landing gear weaker than in real life, or it really is that sensitive. In which case, you should pretty much treat it like glass...



So I think the only remedy to this is land softer, which you can do by either:

- Fly your final approach at a lower glide slope like in your first video. That way, touchdown quality is less dependent on your flare. This is, however, bad if only because 1) There might be obstacles you'll run into; 2) Different airports have different glide slopes for aforementioned reasons; and 3) if you lose an engine, you're doomed.

- Correctly flare, which you do in the second video.

The latter, I think personally, can be accomplished in an aircraft with a Flight Path Marker on a HUD. Whereas in real life you have to identify your aim point through relative motion (by identifying what point on the ground isn't moving), the FPM will quickly tell you that information.

The technique I used in Falcon (and IIRC is in the sim manual) was:

1.) Start off on final on glide slope (Use VASI or 3 deg) and Final App speed (should be published, but usually 1.3 Stall speed).
2.) Put FPM on Runway Threshold (end of runway closest to you) and fly there until about 50-75 ft above runway.
3.) Start flare by smoothly pulling back until FPM is at the end of the runway. At this point your descent rate should be close to nil.
4.) Hold off landing by continuing to smoothly pull back and keeping the FPM at the end of the runway. Do so until you get to your landing attitude (to avoid a tail strike). At this point, you should be 1-3 ft off the runway.
5.) While you are pulling back, gradually decrease whatever power you have left. This will restart your descent rate, which should be zero because you are flying at under 3 ft (and in ground effect) off and level to the runway. At this point, you are basically feeling for the ground.
6.) If you are doing things right, the only indication that your mains have touched the ground should be the squeal of your tires.
7.) After touchdown, continue smoothly pulling back to maintain landing attitude in order to aerobrake. Your stick should be full back before your nose comes down.

If the technique sounds like it eats up a lot of runway, it does. How much runway you eat up before you touchdown will depend on your airspeed control during final: If you are fast, you're going to land further down; if you're slow, well, you're not going to make it. On the plus side, you are more likely to land softly and at a lower speed. If you're eating up too much runway, don't be afraid to cram power and go around; better be made fun of in the virtual squadron bar than have your virtual crew chief kick your virtual butt because you bent his virtual jet...

Thoughts guys?

#3776600 - 05/02/13 05:55 PM Re: DCS F-15C Landing Bug [Re: TGFan]  
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TGFan Offline
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You know I did notice that I came in more 'flat' on the last landing. I'm going to try to replicate that attitude and see what happens. I'll do some from the cockpit also.

Good. Stuff, thanks!


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#3776638 - 05/02/13 06:46 PM Re: DCS F-15C Landing Bug [Re: TGFan]  
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No457_Squog Offline
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Did the u/c actually buckle? Or did the mesh just clip through the runway? 2nd good landing video was almost a bum-scraper!


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#3776643 - 05/02/13 06:51 PM Re: DCS F-15C Landing Bug [Re: No457_Squog]  
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Peally Offline
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Originally Posted By: No457_Squog
Did the u/c actually buckle? Or did the mesh just clip through the runway? 2nd good landing video was almost a bum-scraper!


Looked like the plane just sank through the terrain and the undercarriage was destroyed as a result, it didn't look like anything particularly bad was done from a flying standpoint. Just a big bug in my opinion.


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#3776678 - 05/02/13 08:33 PM Re: DCS F-15C Landing Bug [Re: TGFan]  
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No, I wasn't being serious at all.


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#3776737 - 05/02/13 10:48 PM Re: DCS F-15C Landing Bug [Re: TGFan]  
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TGFan Offline
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I did some more tests with both the A-10C and SU-27 and had no problems. Went back to the F-15 and still had problems. Also curious is that most of the time after a failed landing, after escaping/quiting the mission I was kicked out of World, the program crashed to desktop. I'm gonna just chalk this one up.


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#3776738 - 05/02/13 10:53 PM Re: DCS F-15C Landing Bug [Re: TGFan]  
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BULL Offline
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Same issues here.

I also find my weapons are next to useless now. Firing at a Tu22 took 5 missiles to bring him down...and yes they were hitting him. Also the canon is very very tame. Blasting away at a mig23...hits all over him...just shrugged it off.

Ah well at least the Huey is fun to fly

#3776777 - 05/03/13 01:09 AM Re: DCS F-15C Landing Bug [Re: BULL]  
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TGFan Offline
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Originally Posted By: BULL
Same issues here.

I also find my weapons are next to useless now. Firing at a Tu22 took 5 missiles to bring him down...and yes they were hitting him. Also the canon is very very tame. Blasting away at a mig23...hits all over him...just shrugged it off.

Ah well at least the Huey is fun to fly


That's funny you mention that Bull, because I just started to get into the Eagle's weapons systems and I shot FOUR AIM-120s at an IL-76 and nothing!? lol I'm sure the guys at DCS will get it all ironed out, she's still a great sim to fly.


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#3776869 - 05/03/13 09:27 AM Re: DCS F-15C Landing Bug [Re: TGFan]  
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Warmbrak Offline
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I did a quick 1 vs 1 with a MiG-29 last night, and also found the Vulcan not very effective. I will do a few touch & goes with the F-15 and see if I can get that sinking feeling you're talking about.

#3777297 - 05/04/13 06:34 AM Re: DCS F-15C Landing Bug [Re: TGFan]  
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Warmbrak Offline
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Bug confirmed, it has happened to me twice now.


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