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#3761010 - 04/01/13 08:14 PM Can someone explain how the operational layer works?  
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IcyScythe Offline
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IcyScythe  Offline
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Ok so I attacked the battle area on the top left with Staudt Schumacher and Jantzen, but in the tactical battle I only get Staudt and Jantzen platoons (why not Schumacher?), but I also get the AT gun platoon even though I didn't attack with that unit.

On the other hand, if I initiate the battle in the middle (which was a counterattack by the enemy), I get Jantzen, Filian, and Krautz AND the AT gun.

So basically my question is why does Schumacher's platoon not appear in the top right battle and why does Filian participate in the middle battle but Arndt does not?

What rules govern whether a platoon is in the battle or not?

Also, how do I get 4 units in one grid area? At the beginning of Operation Star there are 4 German units in one grid (3 infantry platoon and 1 supply depot) that are surrounded, but normally I see grids only allow 2.

Last edited by IcyScythe; 04/01/13 09:05 PM.
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#3762295 - 04/04/13 02:20 AM Re: Can someone explain how the operational layer works? [Re: IcyScythe]  
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Flanker15 Offline
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In the options there is 4.18 "Limit battle radius" If you set this to "no limit" you should always have all the units in the squares around the active square.

#3763985 - 04/07/13 03:04 PM Re: Can someone explain how the operational layer works? [Re: IcyScythe]  
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IcyScythe Offline
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Ok thank you I will check that out. I'm confused though because there seems to be no logic behind whether a unit in an adjacent square participates or not. I can't figure it out. Here's another example:



For the right battle, the units in the adjacent square participate (Maus and Wolhmann---even though I didn't even order Maus to attack), but for the left battle this is not the case: Buchwald and Vogl do not show up in the tactical battle even though they have arrows going into the battle area. Why?

#3763999 - 04/07/13 03:30 PM Re: Can someone explain how the operational layer works? [Re: IcyScythe]  
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andrey12345 Offline
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andrey12345  Offline
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Simple set cursor over battle point and you see what forces will be in battle (marked by dots).

Please use ingame help system!

#3764005 - 04/07/13 03:38 PM Re: Can someone explain how the operational layer works? [Re: IcyScythe]  
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IcyScythe Offline
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Yes but unfortunately the dots don't show up until you're committed and end the turn (i.e. can't undo)

I tried using the in-game help but nothing explained what determines who's in the fight on limited or moderate battle radius settings.

#3764008 - 04/07/13 03:43 PM Re: Can someone explain how the operational layer works? [Re: IcyScythe]  
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Krabb Offline
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When cursor is over the battle (fire) symbol you will see highlighting of units which will participate in the battle - little red dots over platoon symbols. Basically, all units from neighboring squares within radius set by 4.18 participate in the battle. So, Maus and Wolhmann are in the radius, but Buchwald and Vogl are not. Units which do not attack will stay in their squares after the battle is over, and those that do (and you will win) will move to the active square (if there is free space in it).

#3764344 - 04/08/13 08:00 AM Re: Can someone explain how the operational layer works? [Re: IcyScythe]  
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andrey12345 Offline
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Originally Posted By: IcyScythe
Yes but unfortunately the dots don't show up until you're committed and end the turn (i.e. can't undo)

Yes of course, no Undo.
What can be rolled back in the combat in real life?
You can roll back our plans, not time - in real life and in game too.

But besides your plans there is always the enemy's plans, which may change the situation.

Determine who will be involved in a combat is just before the start does not work, one can only guess. Therefore, the points shown when the battle is essentially began, and before you use thinking to evaluate the situation.

Originally Posted By: IcyScythe

I tried using the in-game help but nothing explained what determines who's in the fight on limited or moderate battle radius settings.

Help describes about red dots. The rest depends on the specific situation (location of troops) and can not be described in the help system.

#3764346 - 04/08/13 08:05 AM Re: Can someone explain how the operational layer works? [Re: IcyScythe]  
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andrey12345 Offline
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andrey12345  Offline
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P.S. Cheat for check battle radius:

Click to reveal..
Mentally draw a line along the lightest arrow (they good see on our screenshots and owned by platoon who initiates the fight), approximately in the middle of it set point and draw a circle - 1.5 km for medium settings, and 1.2 km for low settings. Platoons in circle likely to be in combat

#3764768 - 04/08/13 10:11 PM Re: Can someone explain how the operational layer works? [Re: andrey12345]  
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IcyScythe Offline
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IcyScythe  Offline
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Originally Posted By: andrey12345
Originally Posted By: IcyScythe
Yes but unfortunately the dots don't show up until you're committed and end the turn (i.e. can't undo)

Yes of course, no Undo.
What can be rolled back in the combat in real life?
You can roll back our plans, not time - in real life and in game too.

But besides your plans there is always the enemy's plans, which may change the situation.

Determine who will be involved in a combat is just before the start does not work, one can only guess. Therefore, the points shown when the battle is essentially began, and before you use thinking to evaluate the situation.



Well that's the problem I have no idea what the game system is to determine who is in the fight. I can't figure out the logic of it.

It's especially annoying when a unit that has an arrow into the combat zone does not show up in the combat. How am I supposed to guess that?

I had one strange situation in particular where I wanted to attack one location with three platoons. Unfortunately I didn't take a screenshot but I'll try to describe it with this:

X,Y,Z = my platoons
A = enemy platoon

*****X********Y********
************************
******************Z*****
************************
************************
*****A*****************
************************

After I move my platoons into position to attack:

************************
************************
************************
************************
****X****Y*************
****A****Z*************
************************


Basically I found that if I moved X into position first and drew an arrow to attack A, and then moved up Y and Z and did the same, that Z would not show up in the tactical battle. However, if I moved Z up first and ordered it to attack, and then moved Y and Z up and ordered them to attack, all 3 platoons would be in the battle. How does that make any kind of sense? Why should the order I tell them to attack on the operational layer affect whether one of them will not appear or not?

Last edited by IcyScythe; 04/08/13 10:12 PM.
#3764956 - 04/09/13 07:56 AM Re: Can someone explain how the operational layer works? [Re: IcyScythe]  
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andrey12345 Offline
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andrey12345  Offline
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Originally Posted By: IcyScythe
Well that's the problem I have no idea what the game system is to determine who is in the fight. I can't figure out the logic of it.

See under cut in my previous messages.

Originally Posted By: IcyScythe

It's especially annoying when a unit that has an arrow into the combat zone does not show up in the combat. How am I supposed to guess that?

Only first unit who initial combat (lighter arrow) guaranteed to be.
Please read message under cut, is very simple rule. And before any one had any problems with the definition of this.

Originally Posted By: IcyScythe

Basically I found that if I moved X into position first and drew an arrow to attack A, and then moved up Y and Z and did the same, that Z would not show up in the tactical battle. However, if I moved Z up first and ordered it to attack, and then moved Y and Z up and ordered them to attack, all 3 platoons would be in the battle. How does that make any kind of sense? Why should the order I tell them to attack on the operational layer affect whether one of them will not appear or not?


I am writing, the point around which the calculated who would be in a combat depends on who will initiate a combat (lighter arrow), depending where you attack you will get different results.

#3764958 - 04/09/13 08:09 AM Re: Can someone explain how the operational layer works? [Re: IcyScythe]  
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andrey12345 Offline
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andrey12345  Offline
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Schematical image (based on last update of March13 patch)




Last edited by andrey12345; 04/09/13 12:00 PM.
#3765576 - 04/10/13 12:22 PM Re: Can someone explain how the operational layer works? [Re: IcyScythe]  
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IcyScythe Offline
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IcyScythe  Offline
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Ok it's starting to make more sense now. Thanks for taking the time to explain andrey smile.

Last edited by IcyScythe; 04/10/13 12:22 PM.

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