Just a note to let everyone know that I have finally completed the update to my FM for OFF. Barring any unforseen problems, this should be the last update of the FM.

Here are the main changes to the FM in 4.0.0:

--Major update with substantial FM revisions to many aircraft.
--Elevator values and pitch damping values modified in order to eliminate the "sluggish" turn performance of several aircraft in FM 3.0.
--Center of gravity (CoG) and center of lift (CoL) locations adjusted to give many aircraft a more tail-heavy feel. In contrast to the original OFF FM and previous versions of my FM mod, all planes (including Albatros series) will now stall and spin if not flown with care.
--Unnecessarily high positive and negative G-force settings lowered for several aircraft, particularly two-seaters.
--Rudder values adjusted on a few aircraft in order to improve rudder control and avoid excessive side-slipping.
--Adjusted empty weight and parasitic drag settings of RAF Fe2b, RAF Be2c, RAF Re8, Sopwith Pup 80 HP, and Halberstadt to eliminate crashing into trees and hills at end of runway problem.
--Moment of Inertia (MOI) values adjusted further on every aircraft in order to improve the performance of AI controlled aircraft, particularly at low altitude.
--Numerous other changes

You can download the update here: http://combatace.com/files/file/13417-hpw-fm-and-ew-mods-for-campaign-and-qc-battles/

Enjoy!

Hi,

Thanks for the program. Just wondering, is this compatible with New OFFICE The Incomparable campaing engine for OFF 0.9.8?

wiiired

Hi Wiiiredl

I downloaded it last night and I run OFFice 0.9.9 and it works find. Just remember that if you were running the HPW mod 3.0, you need to remove it from your active half of the JSGME panel and replace it with the new one. Just take note that the folder which the new mod creates is not labeled as 4.0 so I recommend you rename the folder as such and that way you will always know what version it is.

I hope I have been clear about this, if not just let me know and I can PM you with further help

The installer (.exe) version of the mod will safely deactivate the previous 3.1 version, update it to 4.0, and reactivate. And OFFice 0.9.x supports it right away because the JSGME folder name is the same. The update should be simple and transparent.

So if you're using OFFice, just install the FM exe and viola. There should be no need to manually do anything in JSGME or with files in the mods folder or anywhere else.


Actually, that's the last thing you want to do. If you rename the folder, OFFice will no longer recognize it and it'll no longer work! JSGME mods should absolutely NOT include version numbers in the folder name so they can be upgraded transparently. The documentation installed alongside the JSGME mod folder indicates the version.

Really you're over-thinking this. The OFFice software and supported mods are designed to be transparent and easy. Just run the installer exe, and OFFice will take care of everything. If you go out of your way to make things more complicated, chances are you'll mess things up.

Thanks, Guys, installing now and it went without a hitch I believe.

This is a perfect example of the problems that can result from using version numbers in mod names, as HPW's FM mod used to do. Now you've mangled yourself into having three different incompatible versions of HPW's FM mod on your system and you have no idea how it's actually working or which is actually active in game.

Had you just installed the HPW 4.0 .exe installer or the .7z according to instructions, OFFice would simply ignore the 3.0 and used the 4.0 update automatically. In general, OFFice just won't itself activate old legacy mods with version numbers in their name, and will activate the newer supported-and-tested version-free folders on top. In short, had you followed instructions and left well-enough alone, it all would've worked automatically and transparently. I'll explain what's wrong with your setup below.

I'm sorry it confused you, but this is a hangover from the bad old days of OFF mods, and why still so many old-timers are afraid of using mods at all. One goal with OFFramp taking over JSGME is most users should never even ever use the clunky and unhelpful JSGME themselves and thus never even have a chance to get confused then mess up their install in the first place. Everything "just works" out of the box. Trying to "fix" what ain't broke only causes problems.


The problem is the vast majority of those "legacy mods" just don't work. Period. For example, HPW's FM mod prior to 3.1--that is ones with the version number in the name--have a bug that completely prevents OFF's Order of Battle dynamic campaign engine from assigning the modded planes to AI squadrons. If you'll dig around the forums you'll find lots of old complaints from people about empty skies in the campaign. Wasn't until this summer that Creaghorn and I figured this out testing OFFice, then HPW reworked his mod to work properly in Campaign mode.

Also, because of confusion about where JSGME should be installed, most of the other "legacy mods" used the wrong folder structure so they never worked for many people to begin with. For example, folks reporting campaign aircraft worked fine with "HPW FM and EW Campaign Mod 2.2" and earlier had such "luck" only because the mod's folder structure was wrong for the correct location of JSGME so wasn't actually overwriting the correct files--wasn't truly "active" despite what JSGME said! Depending on where you installed JSGME--and most people had been putting it in the wrong place--some mods worked, some didn't, and most didn't work together. It wasn't until HPW corrected the file structure of his FM for 3.0 that many people were actually using it for the first time even though they had older versions installed and presumably "active" in the JSGME window.

This is why Creaghorn didn't run into the "empty skies" bug and get me on the problem until HPW's FM 3.0, and why I was able to track the problem to the FM. If OFF's most experienced modders can't even tell which mods are properly installed and active on their systems using JSGME alone, it's no surprise when users like you steer into the quicksand.

So: using JSGME "legacy mods" released prior to this past summer that haven't been refactored for the proper file structure is only liable to make a mess of your system. The versions of older mods included with OFFice are refactored and tested to work without issue. This is one of the major reasons for OlPaint01's bundles last summer and now the full OFFice package. This is why I've built the NSIS installer system for OFF JSGME mods, and built a special version of JSGME just for OFF (JSGME_2.6.0_OFF.exe) which is itself bundled with OFFice.

In short: you have no idea what a massive mess I've been trying to clean up, and what a little mess you've made of your own system trying to outsmart all this work of mine.


Maybe it would be nice to easily identify mod version numbers from the JSGME screen, but JSGME has not been designed with this in mind. It's just a crude file-copy tool, and not an actual mod manager. Metadata such as version number should not be hardcoded into data filenames, period, especially metadata that can change. Bad practice an any context. Proper mod managers provide other ways to manage such metadata.

Another problem with mod folders with version numbers in the file names is every time an update is released, it won't work in OFFice until someone (me!) updates the script to test for and order and handle the different versions. Which becomes a big giant mess, especially with the dependencies between mods that are so integral to the OFFice system. The complexity of such scripting grows exponentially with each new version that must be supported. Thinking about trying to wrangle just makes me want to chuck the whole endeavor and go back to balsa wood gliders.

For us OCD-types like me and you who like to see the version of all the mods installed, easiest thing to do is for modders to put the version number in the documentation file that installs alongside the mod. HPW's HTML readme that comes in his manual .7z installer already does this, and I'll give him a new installer .exe that outputs "HPW FM and EW Mod 4.0.0.rtf" into the mods folder instead of the generic "HPW FM and EW Mod.rtf". One look at that, and it's readily obvious what's installed without having to actually open the readme. And is it that hard to just look at the readme file? And the filenames of the installer .exe or .zip or .7z itself also indicate which version you're installing.

OFF modders could come together on a standard metadata file that could also include the version number in the title for easily visual inspection. For example, inside the versionless "HPW FM and EW Campaign Mod" folder you might see a version.4.0.0.txt file containing metadata. If the version numbers are in a standardized format, it'd be possible to parse out with software as well. Ideally JSGME would show this data when you click on the folder, but of course with development dead that won't ever be possible. But there's no reason OFFramp couldn't use such data to display and help sort out versions.

But really this is complete overkill. If you just use OFFice, you get the latest, fully tested and supported version of virtually every OFF JSGME mod, updated to the latest version automatically when you update OFFice/OFFbase, with no worries about any of it.


But it doesn't work for you!!! Let me try to explain what's going on with your JSGME screenshot. And keep in mind from the discussion above that JSGME is clunky, primitive, and untrustworthy--just because it says a mod is "Activated" doesn't mean it's working at all, let alone how the mod designed intended.

So: the old broken 3.0 lingered on your system, but it's absolutely harmless if you're using OFFice. If you manually activate it in JSGME yourself, OFFramp will activate the number-free but functional "HPW FM and EW Campaign Mod" on top. If you activate the "HPW FM and EW Campaign Mod 4.0" you created yourself, OFFice will also activate the version-free "HPW FM and EW Campaign Mod" it recognizes on top.

Since you didn't properly install the 4.0.0 update over the old version-free folder by not using the auto installer and going against the explicit installation instructions in the manual .7z archive, your "HPW FM and EW Campaign Mod" is still the 3.1.1 which came with OFFice 0.9.8. So even though you have a copy of HPW's 4.0 installed, and you think you're activating "HPW FM and EW Campaign Mod 4.0", what you actually get in game is the older 3.1.1. You're not getting HPW's latest changes, and you don't even know it.


But really, what's the point? I simply don't understand this desire to use different versions of mods. There's a reason the update's been released--the old version is broken! That's true with the vast vast majority of OFF JSGME mods. The former practice of posting different versions of mods as different downloads with different JSGME mod folder names only generates confusion and incompatibilities. For example, there are dozens of versions of HPW's FM mod in the CA downloads section, and almost all of them completely break the campaign, that is if you can even get them to activate properly with a copy of JSGME installed in the wrong folder. Same thing with dozens of versions of his DM, and you might think version 2.5 is newer/better than version 1.3.1 but you'd be wrong (version numbers themselves can be unreliable!).

Imagine if Windows let you "choose" which service pack to activate. It'd be chaos for software developers, who now can count on or advise their customers to install at least some version. Does Steam let you choose which version of patch to apply to games, or does it just install the latest version? Once you subscribe to a Skyrim mod with the Steam Workshops, you get the latest version with no options to choose older, broken versions. All this is by design! If the differences are so great that a choice between two makes sense, then don't be 'New Coke': give it a different name completely and treat it as a separate product (you can choose between XP and Vista, but should be running the latest service pack of either).

The reason I added update notification to OFFbase is because most of the bug reports I'd get from people were problems I'd already fixed but people hadn't bothered to update their older versions. I'd have to be out of my mind to try to support older broken versions continually.

My advice: stay the hell out of JSGME unless you're a modder who knows what they're doing, and you probably don't even if you think you do. OFFice 0.9.8 doesn't even install a shortcut for JSGME, though 0.9.9 will so users can deactivate mods manually if they decided to stop using OFFbase. Maybe now I'll change my mind though and try to hide JSGME completely.

And for OFF modders: use the same version-free folder name for all versions of your JSGME mods. If I see one more version number in a JSGME mod folder, I quit.

/endrant

That's the whole point of avoiding version numbers in the mod folder names so updates can be applied transparently! If you download HPW's update, it works with OFFice automatically, with no worries. The answer to wiiired's question is an unqualified "Yes!"

Or you can wait for the next OFFice update and get HPW's update along with it, also automatically and transparently. In either case, everything "just works", with no need for users to fret about version numbers or fiddle around in JSGME.


I just don't understand what you're trying to achieve. Most of the supported mods can be turned off in directly OFFramp if you so choose--FM, DM, music, sound, maps, ammo, guns, missions, weather, realism profiles, etc.

Trying to do so manually in JSGME in the context of an OFFice install is also counterproductive as if they're enabled in OFFramp it will just turn them right back on. What you have to realize is that with OFFice, JSGME doesn't itself control anything anymore, it's just a tool OFFramp uses to for real mod management. JSGME takes its orders from OFFramp, and giving it contradictory orders isn't going to get you very far.

Besides, ones that don't have options to disable are always on for a reason, such as my expanded names files which correct special characters in OBD's originals that can cause problems.

So tell me what mods you're so insistent on excluding from OFFice that can't just be disabled properly in OFFramp.


Using OFFice for some but not all of its features is absolutely possible, in fact that's the entire point. As I said, all the changes to FM, DM, music, sound, maps, ammo, guns, missions, weather, realism and difficulty settings, etc. are all configurable in OFFramp.

But aha! What you're trying to do is avoid the OFFbase, and with that I cannot help you. The character personalities are a requisite function of all the other features, including how the JSGME mods are hooked together. All the mods that work in a stand-alone fashion are already available as separate downloads and can be manually managed with JSGME. But other features like the injury system, dynamic medal system, advanced ammo and historic loadouts, dynamic missions, dynamic realism and difficulty settings, etc. are only available with OFFbase. These features either don't exist as JSGME mods or use JSGME mods in more complex ways that can't be replicated simply turning them on and off manually, and are not even tested to work properly outside OFFbase.

If you're not interested in role-playing, read the FAQ entry on avoiding encounters (basically stay out of the mess hall etc.). But what you're doing--trying to utilize OFFbase features while not actually launching OFF from OFFbase--sounds like a disaster, and not a path from which to make recommendations to people who ARE using OFFice properly.

I know the encounters can seem repetitive, but version 0.9.9, which is almost ready, adds dozens more, including a whole bunch written by JamesL. Most of these new encounters are much more dynamic, playing out differently each time and with more detail revealing more of the character of the participants, and some of the old ones have been expanded as well.

Okay the OFFbase update including HPW's FM mod 4.0.0 is now available, which will patch OFFice 0.9.8 to version 0.9.9. The full OFFice 0.9.9 is currently uploading and should be available soon.

Getting sick of SimHQ's broken, primitive formatting. None of the quote tags are working properly, so reverting to colors. Ugh.

Lothar I am not interested in the following mods which OFFice imposes and I show those circled in red:

'Creaghorn Homebrew Sounds' is a base mod that's already being overwritten by your choice of Andy's Sound Tweak. Manually disabling it in JSGME has absolutely no effect on your game. OFFramp handles these dependencies automatically so you don't need to worry about it.

You can disable HPW's historical weather and skies mod in 0.9.9, but I don't know why you would want to as it kills a bunch of other features:


The HPW Flakmod was only available as part of an alpha test that few besides you had access to, so it's not something anyone else has to worry about. Go ahead and delete it.

Bletchley's dynamic AA is activated always mostly because a number of other mods and features depend on it. Do you have a specific problem with this mod? If there is a real need to disable it I can think about adding an option to OFFramp in the future. But if you really really want to stop OFFramp from activating it, just delete the folders.

I guess there is no way to turn off the expanded German news files in OFFramp either. Boo hoo. Just delete the folder if it bugs you that much. But geeze!

You really should use Bletchley or Buddy's expanded missions, as they greatly improve mission planning integration into OFFbase.

I am interested in these mods and in particular the one circled in red (the HPW UltimateDM which never gets loaded):


Um.... as you can see from your own screenshot:



HPW's UltimateDM isn't being loaded because you told it not too. See what I mean about contradictory orders to JSGME? You're making this all way more complicated than it needs to be.

I am not trying to avoid OFFbase, I'm trying to avoid the role playing and control some aspects of the mission, realism, sounds, and damage modelling that I want by using OFFramp, but those I identified above are not accomodated by OFFramp. Would you kindly explain why this is not possible?

See above.

Your assumption is incorrect. I only utilize OFFbase features when actually launching OFF from OFFbase. When I run OFF in native mode, I remove all the mods that are OFFbase except for the few which I desire such as HPW fm and ew mod and his damage mod which you can see identified in the aboce screen captures.

??? No sense in complaining about the mods OFFbase activates in sessions you're not even using OFFbase--you have total control over JSGME.

I'm currently not interested in any of the encounters, but I do like many of the other features in OFFice, such as OFFramps inherent capabilities and possibilities, plus the enhanced pilot log. For those features alone I would use OFFice. I would just as soon have the ability to skip all encounters completely unless we are talking about a future MP version in which case it could be interesting. Right now the role playing aspect just wastes my time when all I want to do is get to the missions and fly. I guess my best option is to stop using OFFice, but that means ignoring some fine features which you have included in the package and I see great value there. I just wish I could turn the role playing aspect on or off and that would solve that problem

At most you only have to click through one encounter per mission. Only takes a couple seconds, and reminds you who you'll be flying with to list witnesses in your claims forms. And now there are encounters that relate to the specific mission you've been assigned and the historical weather you'll face, so it's also informative.

But you have to have at least this, can't turn the role-playing aspect off, as EVERYTHING depends on your pilot having a personality and relationships. You're asking to fly a plane without an engine.

Thanks for your willigness to understand my concerns.

Really, you're overthinking all of this and causing you and me more grief than necessary. Do you try to run Hat in the Ring for the additional aircraft but while trying to disable the expanded squadrons to which they're assigned? The features are designed to work together, same with OFFice.

I thought this thread was supposed to be about HPWs FM & EW Mod 4.0. Has anyone who has actually tried it willing to post some information on their experiences with it? I'm sure he would like the feedback.

Alas, I don't think very many people are actually flying OFF these days.

You are right, though--I would appreciate the feedback. Incidentally, have you compared the Tripe in FM 3.0 vs. the one in 4.0?