Anyone familiar with the Smith & Wesson SD9VE? It looks like it's the replacement for their very popular Sigma line.

I want a decent pistol I can learn with. I have an old FEG copy of a Browning Hi-Power, but it's a beater and I need a replacement and I want to buy something before Congress figures out a way to prevent me from doing so.

I like 9mm because they're easier to control. The biggest I'd want is .40 cal anyway. I can also get a 1K-round box of ammo for only $230.

Bill, I may need to come out to your place and break it in.

I have not fired one of those exactly, but i have fired a Sigma 9 and it was atrocious. Hopefully its relation to the Sigma is a distant one.

S&W makes some nice guns, but the Sigma wasn't one. The M&P is a far nicer poly gun.

If you want something outside the box, STI offers the GP6 series which are re-branded Slovakian K100s and are fantastic guns for the price.

Pfunk, the door is open. Just schedule a time with me so I can give you the Dog and Pony show.

Sounds like a plan, Bill. Buying Mrs. PFunk one, too. Mind if I drag her along?

Hope you decide on the .40 and not the 9mm.

The 9mm might be a nice target pistol, but the .40 is much more 'versatile'.

Might make a big difference, in a 'pinch'.....


FBI Ballistic Report

Bringing her along would make my day!

The SD9VE is a Sigma.

It's truly dreadful. S&W's attempt to replicate a Glock...done badly. The grip angle is great but the trigger is horrible. If you want an S&W, their M&P 9 is a much better choice. A Glock 19 is a better choice in that kind of gun.

I'd point you at the Walther PPQ if you want a Glock-style pistol that has an awesome trigger.

And as for 9mm versus .40...nine is fine. The .40 can be a little snappy for first time shooters, and it is pricier. I prefer .40 as a self defense cartridge in medium-size autoloaders like the PPQ or Glock 23, but in small guns like Glock subcompacts, 9mm is better in my opinion.

Personally I found the M&P 9 trigger bad also. Never got comfortable with it so in the end I sold that pistol.

I have an M&P 45 and a M&P 45 compact both nice shooting guns, I've shot a Sigma and they are rough I've not shot a SD. I do have a Glock G-22 (40 cal) it's been extremely reliable for the last 20 years and I shoot regularly. The M&P can be improved significantly with an Apex Tactical trigger mod.

Tried out a Sigma 9mm rental last year, it shot straight but the trigger felt really heavy and weird.

Ended up buying a Ruger P95, which admittedly is a bit more chunky & low tech ( hammer fired ), but works well for me and is super simple to operate and disassemble, and the trigger was WAY better.

The other ones I really liked were the Springfield XD in 9mm and 45ACP. I could easily have purchased one of those instead of the Ruger


( I am not an expert, just giving my thoughts on those models as a novice )

Glock makes two alternate trigger connectors - I put the lighter one in my 19 to replace the stock one and it made all the difference (without worry of compromising safety features).

The Glock standard trigger is not good IMHO.
It just needs a trigger job...cheap and makes a big difference.

Also when considering a caliber...I stated the .40 S&W half jacketed round would be IMHO better than the 9mm round, unless you intend on just target shooting. If it's for self defense, I'd try the .45 ACP which my daughter carries, or the .40 if you want a light recoil.

FBI report

From that report;

Warning, incoming 2-cents:

I have a Ruger P94 .40 stainless.

Pros:
Trigger feels perfect, and I like the versatility of a double-action/hammer. Very solid. Easy to clean, .40 is a comfy shooting round. Was comparably cheap when I bought it.

Cons:
Maybe too solid, as Clydewinder says about similar P95, it's chunky. And the P94 is all metal. Heavy. Not great for carry, at least for a slender guy. Grip sucks. I slapped a Hogue on after one session. Now it feels nice.

The SD9VE is unfortunately in my price range right now, I'd love to have the Ruger.

After having the Hi-Power for so long, I just fell in love with shooting nines. They're just fun to have and with the proper load, they're gonna hurt somebody pretty bad.

I want an FN Herstal copy of the Hi-Power so bad I can't see straight, but that reliability comes with a hefty price tag.

As long as you know the limitations of your abilities, that's the key.
And the 9mm is very limited.
Hurting someone 'pretty bad', is just not going to cut it.
If he had a .45 cal. weapon, he'd kill you as soon as you shot him.
Your first shot, would be your last. It wouldn't matter how badly you 'hurt' him.
It wouldn't do you a bit of good.

It's been my experience that the first disabling shot that hits the opponent, is 'usually' the one that determines the outcome.
If the first shot isn't enough to stop the opponent, and he has the opportunity to fire back, and if his shot is disabling....the fight is over. It really matters not, how many shots you have in your magazine.

What matters is, who gets 'stopped' first.
And whether you die. Later on, or right then and there, makes no difference.

If the other guy dies 2 hours later, it doesn't do you a bit of good, if you die also.
It's been my experience that a 9mm doesn't 'stop' much, unless it hits a vital organ.
Even then, I've talked to people afterwards, then they died later.
I've never seen a man get off a shot, after being hit in the body with a .45 cal HJHP ACP or long colt.

This leads me to believe, it's the first effective shot, that counts.
It stops the fight.

Not the ones in the magazine.....not the best target pistol....it's the first effective shot that hits, and disables the other shooter that wins the day.

And that's a day, one wants to win, you can only lose 'once'.

A .40 cal. HJHP is not the best round I'd pick, but it beats a 9mm.
I'd want every edge, I could have, at a time like that. No compromises.
If you think "It can't happen to me.".....then don't play the game...just get a .22 or a 9mm, and hope for the best.

I carry a .40 cal. Glock, because they gave me one, and my .45 Colt Series 70, is just too heavy for an old guy who lives in a one horse town. The Glock is light, and it's 'enough'. But if I still lived in a metropolitan area, I'd carry the weight of the .45 because I've seen what they do when they hit a man. I wish they'd given me a .45 Cal Glock, the weight and the caliber would be right. Then I'd get a good trigger installed, and have the perfect weapon...for ME. Or just get a 10mm and leave it at that.

That's just me......I'd feel bad, if I didn't make it clear, pass on what I've discovered.
It's your life.

I also had a Browning Hi-Power 9mm. Nickle plated, beautiful weapon. I didn't carry it at work, but still, I sold it the day after I saw a dog hit with 5 or 6 rounds from a 9mm from my partner, and kept running around in the yard, like nothing happened. I watched the bullets go right through the dog, come out the other side. I realized the bullet wasn't enough. It was a target pistol. If the dog had a .45, he'd have killed all 4 of us watching this cluster $%#&.

The guy who shot the dog, went out and bought a .44 mag that same week. He was pale, when he realized what he had been carrying all that time.

A few years later the Department issued .40 cal. Glocks, instead of the standard .38's.
That was a long time ago.
I don't know of any police department that issues a 9mm hand gun.
I'm sure there is one someplace....but it's something to think about.

Your life may depend on it.
Might give you a real bad feeling some day, looking down the bore of a .45, knowing you have a 9mm down your back.
And knowing when you pull and he thinks it's your wallet coming out, it's just gonna be, one shot each.
Things happen real fast.

Murph, thanks for the heart to heart. I get you.

That said, I know what I can shoot and what I'm comfortable with. But, with you and Cat both saying the SD is something I won't like, I've checked out a couple of Taurus pieces that look like they're the better deal.

The 24/7G2 looks like a great carry piece, something easy and comfortable to walk around with and you don't feel like you're wearing an anchor. Taurus also makes a 92FS clone that gets great reviews, but the thing is a beast and not something you're gonna walk around with.

Thoughts?

I like Murphy favor a 45. I have tried many, but settled on a Bersa 45 Ultra Compact for my carry gun. Much of the goodness of a 1911 with some features I wanted. It is DA/SA, has a loaded chamber indicator that can be seen and felt, thumb safety, slide lock, metal, black, and importantly fits my hand. It has a decocker, but I am just not comfortable with them. Always ready for it to go BOOM. So I manually drop the hammer. It has been rock solid dependable. Small, but not too small. Just the right amount of heft.

Not one of the Big Names, but it is perfect for me.

I'm not a name-brand guy, either.

But the FN just appears to be one of the best-made pistols ever.

I rarely post here but in this particular case I'll make an exception.

I own a variety of 9mm pistols and have had the opportunity to shoot a number of different makes and models, but looking for the best one is subjective. I favor my SIG P226 as a full size double stack 9mm, followed by my P229 DAK, with my S&W M39 close on their heels. The M39 unfortunately is no longer made as S&W quit making their metal automatics a few years ago which is a shame as the 39 series are excellent single stack pistols with excellent triggers and a very nice grip. The downside is the slide mounted safety/decocker like many Walther inspired designs. I also own a Beretta 92FS which isn't too bad except that it's fat and long. In addition I added a Walther P1 to the stable a few months ago and while I consider it a pleasant design for what it is, it's not at the forefront of technology. I would not feel outgunned with any of these 9mms... But given the choice, I'd rather have a rifle.

Given the Sigma's cost, there's not a lot out there that you can find of equivalent cost without sacrificing value. The market is pretty poor right now if you're buying and sellers get to set the price. It used to be you could get a decent deal on a FNP or FNX but now those are clocking about $550+ and that doesn't even get into magazine availability. Ex-German police P6s are still around for a reasonable price but you'll have a hell of a time finding magazines for them and I suspect the single stack magazine may be something of a turn off. For a time you could get SIG SP2022s all day long at great prices; my brother in law has one and it's a very nice firearm. I am not sure how available they are nowadays. They are comparative to a P229 with a larger plastic frame instead of an alloy one.

I would advise against getting a larger caliber unless you're able to feed it and are comfortable with using it. My only .40 is a Glock 23 and it is a very snappy pistol, if one of the most accurate handguns I have at bone stock. I also bought it used - keep that in mind too. I have two .45s, both 1911 pattern, and would not recommend them at all due to the same ammo availability and cost of ammunition. They do however shoot nicer than the Glock 23, but at the cost of weight. I did have a 9mm 1911 but I was hardly ever bringing it out and I ended up giving that one to my sister (she only had a .22 up til then).

In addition, I wouldn't be so quick to discount your FEG Hi Power unless it has so many things wrong with it that it won't run any more. I understand that FEGs are hit and miss but they are still based on a proven design. It may be worth putting some money into it for a little bit of tuning.

If you haven't found it already, the late Stephen Camp had a lot of good information on Hi Powers and 9mm pistols in general. His old site appears to be inactive but the blog is still up with most of the old articles.

As to caliber, I find that I often have a 5 shot .38 in my pocket rather than a 5" .45 on my hip. We can debate the merits of caliber all day, any day, but at the end of it all what matters is what you have when you need it the most. A .22 available NOW is a lot better than a .500 S&W at home. Only hits count and even then only hits to the right place.

I have a S&W 5906 9mm. It's fun to shoot and don't know about how deadly it is. I have two factory fifteen round magazines two.

And it's heavy enough if you run out of bullets, you can always beat them to death with it.