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#3776469 - 05/02/13 01:47 PM Re: How to break the turn fight? [Re: CTR69]  
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No, the first thing is to decide if you're doing a one circle or a two circle fight, and thus whether you are staying at corner speed or not - and that's just the simplest decision you have to make when merging.


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#3776471 - 05/02/13 01:52 PM Re: How to break the turn fight? [Re: SUBS_17]  
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The simplest way to master dogfighting is to start flying UPT formation exercises, specifically rejoins and extended trail/fighting wing exercises - with an instructor.

This stuff about intercepting bombers is not effective - it's called throwing the baby in the water to teach it how to swim, but unfortunately, it rarely works this way with air to air combat.

Air to air combat requires a lot of information, and intercepting bombers gives you none of that.


Originally Posted By: SUBS_17
The simplest way to master dogfighting is to start small so start with a decent interceptor vs an unarmed bomber/transport. The best way to start is your approach on the other aircrafts 6. Then once you've got the hang of that head to head same aircraft and practice snapshot and Lead turns. Once you've mastered those the next aircraft should be an aircraft of less performance than your own but armed. eg F-15C vs SU25 So start off small and work your way up. immelman

Last edited by GrayGhost; 05/02/13 01:53 PM.

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#3776485 - 05/02/13 02:18 PM Re: How to break the turn fight? [Re: CTR69]  
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Hey CTR,

Personally, I would say that was doing it the hard way. The MiG-29 is about as good an adversary as you can find...definitely a good match for even the F-16.

Honestly, for starters, you should really fight 1v0. It's not sexy, but it will make you a better pilot. You should know if you can pull a level turn at various altitudes. If not, how much nose low will you need to stay at corner speed? Can you hold max G and corner speed on the deck? If you accelerate (like in the big mouthed Vipers), what kind of climb rate can you achieve? What is the min altitude that you can pull a split S? Can you park your nose up in the air and fly at min speed as if you were in a Flat Scissors? With your nose parked up, what will the rudder do for you? Just go out and bend the jet around and understand how she flies.

These are all important questions and ever more important if you are flying something that doesn't have the AOA and G limiters of a modern jet. The less performance or the less technology you have, the more you need to feel the airplane. Even in a "magic jet" you can squander your resources, if you aren't smart about it.

After you can fly your airplane, then you should consider beating up on someone else's. As noted above, a Fitter or Fishbed might allow you some "performance excess" to practice. A Fulcrum on the other hand, has about the same amount of performance as you. Depending on how accurately it is modeled, you should need to fight well to beat it. Remember as well that the AI aircraft is flown by an AI pilot, so there is a big question about how well he is programmed to fly and if he is allowed to cheat.

Lastly, don't be afraid to change it up. Try going vertical. Try fighting one circle. Have a plan for different adversaries and know both what your airplane is best at and also what you are best at.

Inevitably, you will fight better the more you fight. While modern BFM training is relatively structured, traditionally a nugget got good at BFM by getting the crap gunned out of him by the skipper.

So, learn something from the fights that don't go your way...and be thankful you weren't in the Battle of Britain and going into combat with ten hours of flight time. smile

Deacon

#3776766 - 05/03/13 12:29 AM Re: How to break the turn fight? [Re: CTR69]  
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SUBS_17 Offline
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Originally Posted By: CTR69
I'm practicing 1vs1 guns-only TE, so that's MiG29. I pull too hard on the merge, so i quickly fall below corner speed. So first thing is to stay at corner speed at all times and going from there, i guess. I do eventually creep onto his 6, but it takes way longer than 1 minute.


What sim? If its Falcon then flying against SU27s is a lot easier, Mig29s in both Falcon and DCS are quite agile and can turn and climb a lot better also the SU27 has a bigger airframe so its easier to spot and shoot down. AI SU27s in F4AF will fly slow eventually and are sitting ducks at low speed.



"Trust me I know what I'm doing" Detective Sledge Hammer
#3776767 - 05/03/13 12:32 AM Re: How to break the turn fight? [Re: GrayGhost]  
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Originally Posted By: GrayGhost
The simplest way to master dogfighting is to start flying UPT formation exercises, specifically rejoins and extended trail/fighting wing exercises - with an instructor.

This stuff about intercepting bombers is not effective - it's called throwing the baby in the water to teach it how to swim, but unfortunately, it rarely works this way with air to air combat.

Air to air combat requires a lot of information, and intercepting bombers gives you none of that.




UPT should already have been learned before doing dogfights chili and yes big targets are better to learn gunnery on as they are easier to hit before you start doing the more difficult faster moving targets. With enough practice 1 vs 8 is possible.



"Trust me I know what I'm doing" Detective Sledge Hammer
#3776905 - 05/03/13 01:19 PM Re: How to break the turn fight? [Re: SUBS_17]  
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Hitting targets isn't dogfighting. Gunnery is the very last part you do AFTER you are done dogfighting. UPT formation is the key to dogfighting. I'd like to see your 1vs8 against trained players, not AI ... heck, even a 1v1 or 1v2. You'll not even get to shoot one guy down in the 1v2.

Originally Posted By: SUBS_17
UPT should already have been learned before doing dogfights chili and yes big targets are better to learn gunnery on as they are easier to hit before you start doing the more difficult faster moving targets. With enough practice 1 vs 8 is possible.

Last edited by GrayGhost; 05/03/13 01:19 PM.

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#3777977 - 05/06/13 12:32 AM Re: How to break the turn fight? [Re: GrayGhost]  
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SUBS_17 Offline
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I've beaten 2 players in mp it happens and I've also seen really good guys win against me and another pilot. It happens BTW just because its AI doesn't mean that they cannot shoot me down as can be seen in the video.

UPT or in this case BFT campaign 2 ship lol. tactical



BTW this is an earlier version of this payware campaign for DCS World A-10C. IMO the latest version has most bugs removed.

Next time I manage to find the time I'll record a track of mp guns only if I can find a decent server with other players.



"Trust me I know what I'm doing" Detective Sledge Hammer
#3880575 - 12/20/13 12:10 PM Re: How to break the turn fight? [Re: CTR69]  
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Laurwin Offline
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UPT = undergraduate pilot training? Presumably those pilot trainees, would train for formation flying and such basic flight manouvers (under the stern watch of instructors)

I was never in the air force sadly. My eyeballs in real life, were always too weak for that kind of thing. Myopia and astigmatism frown

Perhaps, the children of the future, have better opportunities of chasing their dream (military pilot)


Last edited by Laurwin; 12/20/13 12:11 PM.
#3880858 - 12/20/13 07:58 PM Re: How to break the turn fight? [Re: CTR69]  
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SUBS_17 Offline
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Dude that's what sims are for. tactical



"Trust me I know what I'm doing" Detective Sledge Hammer
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