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#3709120 - 12/31/12 01:40 AM Adjusting mixture on Warthog throttle?  
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Mace71 Offline
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I'd split my Warthog throttle and using the right one for throttle control and the left for mixture. Throttle is ok but the mixture only goes from 0-100% and nothing in between, how can I change this? Also, anyone else have a Warthog and have a better usage for CEM and the throttle unit? Cheers


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#3709254 - 12/31/12 08:12 AM Re: Adjusting mixture on Warthog throttle? [Re: Mace71]  
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Keets Offline
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England
I use left stick for prop pitch, right stick for throttle. Mixture I've got on the little grey slider.

In most RAF a/c there are two positions only for mixture since the last patch. I haven't spent enough time flying axis a/c so don't know if its different for them.


Keets
#3709465 - 12/31/12 05:03 PM Re: Adjusting mixture on Warthog throttle? [Re: Mace71]  
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BuzzumFrog Offline
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I've only lately flown the 109, so I can't speak for the british planes, but I use the left stick for water radiator , right stick for throttle, and the little rocker switch underneath the red button on the joystick head for prop pitch control. From the player's perspective, mixture control on the 109 is either ON or OFF (though I believe the engine controls it automatically using a basic computer of some sorts, the name of which escapes me at the moment.)


#3711399 - 01/03/13 09:12 PM Re: Adjusting mixture on Warthog throttle? [Re: Mace71]  
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ATAG_Snapper Offline
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Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
As with Keets above I use the Warthog's split throttle for throttle and pitch. The mixture control is modelled correctly for the Spitfires and the Hurricanes (after being incorrectly modelled in various ways by the devs for over a year).

As in the real BoB Spitfires and Hurricanes, there are only two mixture settings: Auto Rich (lever fully back) and Auto Lean (lever fully forward). There is no intermediate settings nor adjustments. The mixture lever in both the real aircraft and this sim are mechanically linked to the throttle, so that you cannot advance the mixture lever to Auto Lean unless the throttle lever is likewise advanced fully forward. The reason for all this was basically to have Full Rich as a "set and forget" and to prevent new or distracted pilots from blowing up their engines in forgetting to richen the air/fuel mixture in such situations as landing approaches.

As in the real aircraft, Auto Rich will work well for all engine settings, altitudes, maneuvres, etc. The air/fuel mixture is automatically adjusted for changes in altitude, throttle & pitch settings, etc. Auto Lean comes into play when you need extra time aloft in level flight, such as convoy patrols, excursions over Occupied France, etc. For this setting to work well, throttle must be reduced to less than +1 boost, and revs brought down to 1800 to 2200 revs to lean out your gas consumption and extend your time aloft without overheating the engine. Oil and water temps must be monitored at all times (as always).

In game many Spit and Hurri pilots prefer to fly with gas tanks at only 50% or less to glean a few extra mph top speed and for a bit of extra maneuvrability. The real Spits and Hurries were topped up with fluids, including gas, but ingame you'll notice a significant difference in acceleration between 100% fuel and 30% -- very handy if you need to take off when your airfield is under attack. In this case, some players who frequently start off with low quantities of fuel may resort to cruising at Auto Lean settings to preserve their gas if they're in no particular rush and flying level to their destination.

Personally, I rarely use Auto Lean. I usually start off with 70% fuel for normal patrols, or 100% if CAP'ing over a Blue-designated target which may involve some time (sometimes throttling back at altitude and going to Auto Lean to circle overhead in figure-8's).

Hope this helps. smile

Snapper


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#3713467 - 01/07/13 03:21 PM Re: Adjusting mixture on Warthog throttle? [Re: Mace71]  
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Itkovian Offline
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That's actually bloody useful, Snapper. Very good to know.

That's one less engine management question... I'm still wondering why I can't use boost cut-off in Wick vs Dundas 111sqn's campaign.

For that matter, is the Hurricane with constant speed prop modeled in CloD? I'm stuck with the 2-speed prop in the WvD campaign, but that might be intentional (though weren't they all in place by august?)

Itkovian

#3713569 - 01/07/13 07:34 PM Re: Adjusting mixture on Warthog throttle? [Re: Mace71]  
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Murph Offline
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Yes, the ROTOL constant speed prop is modeled in CloD.


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#3713715 - 01/08/13 12:30 AM Re: Adjusting mixture on Warthog throttle? [Re: Itkovian]  
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ATAG_Snapper Offline
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Originally Posted By: Itkovian
That's actually bloody useful, Snapper. Very good to know.

That's one less engine management question... I'm still wondering why I can't use boost cut-off in Wick vs Dundas 111sqn's campaign.

For that matter, is the Hurricane with constant speed prop modeled in CloD? I'm stuck with the 2-speed prop in the WvD campaign, but that might be intentional (though weren't they all in place by august?)

Itkovian


OK, I've got egg on my face here: I purchased and downloaded the Wick vs Dundas campaign.....but other than firing it up to check it installed properly (it did), I haven't played it yet! However, I can tell you that all 2-speed RAF aircraft in Clod are 87 octane-only, so the Boost Cut Out Override is disabled in this sim. The same applies to the CSP-equipped Hurricane MK1 Rotol and the Spitfire 1a.

The good news is that after a long, protracted battle over at the 1C Official Clod Forum, it was established that the RAF flew their fighters (2-speed and CSP) during the BoB on 100 octane petrol that enabled the Boost Cut Out Override to be activated (Spitfire: push the throttle through the gate; Hurricane: pull the tit out). The Merlin II, III, and XX in the game could now be pushed for a short time from full throttle (100% = 6.25 lbs boost) to Boost Cut Out Override (110% = 12 lbs boost) giving a short term increase in speed of 20 - 30 mph IAS at sea level. Care must be taken to prevent engine overheating (oil, glycol) and/or too high a sustained intake manifold pressure from blowing a head gasket. All this is modelled in Clod in the following RAF aircraft: Hurricane MK1_100 octane, Spitfire 1a_100 octane, Spitfire 2a.

I don't know if the above three 100 octane RAF aircraft in this sim are present in WvD....but they should be for historical accuracy.

Since I'm on a roll....... biggrin

I use the grey slider on my Warthog throttle base for the radiator. Reason: it has a very handy detente in the halfway (50%) position. For take offs, landings, and hard climbs I push it fully forward to the Full Open position, also when I notice the glycol temp edging above 110 degrees (I also reduce throttle/boost pressure to get the glycol temp down quickly. If oil temps approach 95 degrees I reduce rpms by coarsening prop pitch in CSP-equipped RAF fighters). In combat situations you can squeeze an extra 5-10 mph IAS by closing your rad from 100% down to 50% with a flick of your thumb on the grey lever. The center detente allows you to do this without taking your eyes off your opponent -- extremely useful!

Last edited by ATAG_Snapper; 01/08/13 12:51 AM.

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#3713956 - 01/08/13 02:01 PM Re: Adjusting mixture on Warthog throttle? [Re: ATAG_Snapper]  
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Itkovian Offline
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Itkovian  Offline
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Originally Posted By: ATAG_Snapper


The good news is that after a long, protracted battle over at the 1C Official Clod Forum, it was established that the RAF flew their fighters (2-speed and CSP) during the BoB on 100 octane petrol that enabled the Boost Cut Out Override to be activated (Spitfire: push the throttle through the gate; Hurricane: pull the tit out). The Merlin II, III, and XX in the game could now be pushed for a short time from full throttle (100% = 6.25 lbs boost) to Boost Cut Out Override (110% = 12 lbs boost) giving a short term increase in speed of 20 - 30 mph IAS at sea level. Care must be taken to prevent engine overheating (oil, glycol) and/or too high a sustained intake manifold pressure from blowing a head gasket. All this is modelled in Clod in the following RAF aircraft: Hurricane MK1_100 octane, Spitfire 1a_100 octane, Spitfire 2a.

I don't know if the above three 100 octane RAF aircraft in this sim are present in WvD....but they should be for historical accuracy.


Wow... thanks for the info, this is very illuminating.

It's troubling that there was an actual protracted battle over this. Every source out there that I know of makes it clear that 100 octane fuel was used throughout the Battle of Britain. Similarly, the constant speed props were also common.

I wonder if the WcD Spit campaign at least uses 100 octane and/pr CSP version. Its a shame that was even in doubt.

Thank you.

Itkovian

#3713991 - 01/08/13 03:23 PM Re: Adjusting mixture on Warthog throttle? [Re: Itkovian]  
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ATAG_Snapper Offline
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Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
That was a thread you'll be glad you missed. Over 1100 posts of back-and-forth nastiness, punctuated with all kinds of documents pasted in purporting to refute each other's position. I stayed well out of it. On the plus side, there was a lot of good info if you separated the good from the silly. smile

If you want, shoot me a PM re dogfighting tactics for Clod Spits vs Clod 109's. Although in this sim the 109's have better overall performance than the Spitfires, there are ways to even things up a bit. Trying to fly the Clod Spitfires per the Pilots Notes procedures will burn out the Merlin engines in short order, which is frustrating in the extreme. I haven't posted much here lately, and the last thing I want is to come off as some kind of know-it-all. I have spent many hours online in the ATAG Server and just wish to share the pros and cons of what I've gradually absorbed after getting shot down a million times! LOL

The future of Clod looks much brighter now. A growing international team of programmers and 3D modellers have come together over at ATAG and are working on fixing the broken bits; first priority are accurate flight models of ALL the aircraft for both sides. Much more is in the works, though, which will be released in a series of patches.

It's all good! thumbsup


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#3714531 - 01/09/13 04:27 PM Re: Adjusting mixture on Warthog throttle? [Re: Mace71]  
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Itkovian Offline
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Itkovian  Offline
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Hum, how much worse is the Spit's modeling compared to the Hurricane?

I don't do online play, just single player. I've been playing Wick vs Dundas' 111 squadron campaign (hurricanes) and it's quite fun. Are you saying that my experience will get worse when I try the Spitfire squadron's missions?

And how is the Spitfire's modeling bad? Is it a question of missing the 100 octane fuel?


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