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#3831813 - 09/04/13 08:54 PM Re: Best way to learn Falcon 4 [Re: Gigolety]  
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- Ice Offline
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Congratulations on getting to this stage!

However, have you been flying against the AI all this time?


- Ice
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#3837815 - 09/16/13 09:05 PM Re: Best way to learn Falcon 4 [Re: theOden]  
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Gigolety Offline
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Originally Posted By: theOden
Very impressive Gigolety.
You've really used the simGame more on the sim side than most others.

Personally the only brevity I use is "Bollocks" and it means another SAM is heading for me :/


Don't worry, it is just a matter to read and memorize after that you have just to read the brevity code and recall the explanation. There was a good Brevity code explanation made by a virtual F-16 squadron with good examples. I can't remember the name. Let me see.

It should be here but now it is necessary to register. I have old version on cd but I don't know how to upload here. That is nice to have a practical example but it is better if you start to memorize the words.

http://firstfighterwing.com/VFW/downloads.php

You may read this too if you like:

http://www.angelfire.com/ma3/RAF209/library/rafdocs/Battle_Com_Communication_Brevity_Codes.htm

Practice with someone you know is good at. Try to join the VFW, they look pretty prepared.


Last edited by Gigolety; 09/16/13 09:07 PM.
#3837820 - 09/16/13 09:14 PM Re: Best way to learn Falcon 4 [Re: - Ice]  
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Gigolety Offline
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Thank ICE,

no I have been on a virtual squadron until 2005 then due to personal life I have to drop and stop Falcon until 2009. Now due to a bad internet connection I am forced to fly locally. I miss the internet flight with humans.

In any case when I was in that virtual squadron there were nice people and really passionate virtual pilots but they didn't have any knowledge about aviation even civil aviation and finally around 2003 and 2004 the main charge were taken by people who were looking to feed the power ego and they were on a power trip. The course were doing was about how to learn to use the F-16 Avionics when in reality they should start from basic airmanship. They could not even say why they were landing low on speed or overunning. One day when I was doing the aerobraking just after touchdown one of them told me to place the nose down at least 3 or 4 time or I was exceeding the runway. I have just read the day before the Bonanni F-4 guide so the aerobraking was explained so I just disregard like if I could not hear.

One day, I was clearly too fast and too long after touchdown so I didn't want ot experience another overrun and I gave power and performed a go-around . Second VFR circuit and this time I watched better the speed and landed right.

One of the leader after the landing asked me with a bit of disrespect what was the reason to make that move, he told me: what was it ? An aerobatic maneuver ? (We were trying to perform aerobatics to resemble the thunderbids. A truly too optimistic plan, taking into account our skills and the Falcon SP3 internet connection system , that had some lag. After a while we drop the idea!)

I forgave him: he was a lawyer. So may be he didn't know what a go-around procedure is all about.

But as you may see, I am not a military pilot. I am not here to impose anything to anyone, I just share a system that basically resemble the real military training system. They don't start to fly F-16 or F-15, they start from basic aircrafts and they move-up, and even with this system some don't achieve the minimum standard.

Viceversa, in this squadron I was enrolled, anybody joining them was immediately place on an F-16 and explained HSD, Radar, HUD and so on so on. How can it work if the guy don't know why an aircraft fly and what is an aileron or a rudder?


One day, the responsible made one fo his marvellous mission and I had to make a strike. I was heavy and with small tankers. So at a certain moment, after abusing the after burner, I had to look for the tanker and try to get it. I was not aware like today, where I know how to manage the fuel and calculate the fuel consumption (We didn't have the F-16 flight maual like today too), so I had to catch this tanker because this genius place the holding pattern of the tanker with legs of 50 Nm. SO I was forced with 900 lbs to reach the first ARIP and then look for the ARCP that it was 50 nm at 20.000 ft when I had to save fuel. Conclusion. dead stick land on a near alternate with some laughs of the others. Normally the holding is not longer than 20 Nm with 10-15 nm as a normal holding leg, unfortunately he didn't consider those values good for him.


One day, I did a saturday mission after not flying F-4 for about 2 months. I was number 4, the genius just place the aircraft on route. The others rejoin, I didn't and I struggle because with MIL power I could not catch up. He didn't know what an arcing rejoin was or what to reduce the speed and once everybody is in position accelerate to navigation speed.

So When a couple of Mig-29 I finally arrive to them but once in the fuball since he was not able to manage the formation, I didn't know air brevity code like them. I locked and fired. I finally shot him down. That was the 2nd or third time. Since he was the boss of the squadron one night he threated me, he wss thinking about a suspension if it was happening again, and to pay attention. May be if he was going to learn how to lead we could avoid it, since we were basically unable to defeat an A-22 once they were firing at us. Funny part it is that one night they made a mission about how to learn to defeat the air to air missile (They didn't know a bloody tactics but they were making the teachers). I was the only one to survive just because without realizing I used the M.R.A. definitions and applied to the AGM-54s they were firing from the F-14 (If they were going to get closer they were scared to be kicked dwon!). I survived just because I was lucky, I did the right thing but I didn't know what I was doing. Pure luck! My wingman was shot down.

But his power trip was making him think we were the fools. In fact after a while many moced out of the squadrons.

So it is up to the virtual pilots but if you learn something you may enjoy better the simulator and avoid this creepy stories ahahah.

Last edited by Gigolety; 09/16/13 09:42 PM.
#3837828 - 09/16/13 09:23 PM Re: Best way to learn Falcon 4 [Re: Gigolety]  
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- Ice Offline
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- Ice  Offline
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+1 to not liking the drama and the power trip.

It seems to me that you've approached this as a real pilot might. Do you have GA experience? Things like VFR and IFR are cool to learn, but not really necessary to enjoy Falcon BMS. Same with night refuelling. Then again, that depends how you define the word "enjoy." For me, if the pilot has the basic navigation skills and can hold formation, he can then start learning A-A and A-G stuff, the "combat" section of combat flight sims. Should the pilot wish to learn more, such as flying heads-down approaches following published plates, cool! Should the pilot wish to learn brevity and apply it, awesome! Again, it depends on how you define the word "enjoy."

And yeah, if someone professes to like the F-16 but doesn't know about aerobraking, he doesn't have a clue and should be disregarded smile


- Ice
#3837830 - 09/16/13 09:29 PM Re: Best way to learn Falcon 4 [Re: - Ice]  
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Gigolety Offline
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It seems to me that you've approached this as a real pilot might. Do you have GA experience? Things like VFR and IFR are cool to learn, but not really necessary to enjoy Falcon BMS.

May be I have some real aviation experience ! ahoy or may be not! neaner

I am not here to force anybody, it is a method of learning. It is up to the individual to accept or not this learning process. deadhorse

If you don't want to study because it is too much I understand, then don't be frustated like we were in that squadron if when we were flying with other squadrons (One Swedish), they were basically killing us like flies .

Someday I was ashamed! cuss

So taking into account that experience I look for a way to avoid it. i didn't want to experience it anymore. That is the main reason.

Cheers guys.

Last edited by Gigolety; 09/16/13 09:31 PM.
#4229592 - 02/16/16 03:14 AM Re: Best way to learn Falcon 4 [Re: Gigolety]  
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Darren Offline
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The bms manual makes my anxiety go through the roof.
I read it but my mind rejects it and refuses to commit anything to memory.
I could read the same paragraph twenty times and my mind would reject it.
For a complicated sim like this,manuals are completely useless.
The only way to learn is by someone showing you the ropes in the sim otherwise you will end up losing the plot by reading the manuals.

I was 32 when F4 came out.
I was behind the 8ball from the start.
Most people who are good at this sim started with f4 or Allied Force in their teens or twentys.
My best experience with flight sims was when my mind was still fresh playing the F16 sims on the Amiga a500.

F18 interceptor and F19 stealth fighter and F16 combat pilot also Birds of prey.
A bit of Wings also lol.

Now I'm 49,F4 ring binder still locked away gathering dust,I'm at a stage where my mind is just too old and worn to comprehend F4.

I did get to do a ramp start but that's where my brain's ceiling ends.
Unless you were very spolt and were born with a very strong brain,this sim will leave you wanting to kill yourself.

P.S. I have done everything I have to try to get my mind in condition to play this but you can't change yur brain.
If you're dumb you're dumb and you can't have the privelage of enjoying the sim like the narcissists do.
I have given up alcohol,coffee(over a year coffee free,I run,I exercise,I drum,I'm doing everything I can to try to kick this brain into gear so I can play Falcon BMS but I still get anxiety.

You make me so jealous I just want to jump in the sea.

I also have kerotoconos in my eyes which also makes reading manuals hard but my contacts ar edoing a great job.
I think it's just I wasn't spoilt with a brainy brain.
I still don't understand Fightclub or The Matrix movie.

Should I just kill myself?

Gaming in general is a narcissists playfround really.
You go online ,get called all kinds of names by the Veruca Salts who call you a loser or a fag or RTFM.

At least dumb people will look you in the eye and buy you a beer.

Last edited by Darren; 02/16/16 03:32 AM.
#4229604 - 02/16/16 03:50 AM Re: Best way to learn Falcon 4 [Re: Gigolety]  
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piper Offline
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^^^ Nominated for post of the year! ^^^

#4229696 - 02/16/16 12:25 PM Re: Best way to learn Falcon 4 [Re: Gigolety]  
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Darren Offline
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Darren  Offline
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Another thing I get completely bored if I stay on the same sim all the time.
I have to give it a rest for a few weeks otherwise I just go into a deep depression.

One session is exhausting enough.

I think I'm just geting too old.

BMS is a sim for the kiddies.

Last edited by Darren; 02/16/16 12:27 PM.
#4230252 - 02/17/16 04:50 PM Re: Best way to learn Falcon 4 [Re: Darren]  
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schnidrman Offline
Jason Schneider
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Originally Posted By: Darren
I have given up alcohol,coffee


I believe this is where you went wrong... cheers

But in all seriousness, if you really are contemplating suicide over a sim, you need to get help, brother!


[Linked Image]
#4230260 - 02/17/16 05:07 PM Re: Best way to learn Falcon 4 [Re: Gigolety]  
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Ace_Pilto Offline
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Darren,

Jesus dude, it's nothing to get anxious about. Look at it this way:

It takes real college educated, high IQ, highly motivated pilots years with the best instructors and classroom techniques money can buy to fly the real F-16 operationally and many of them don't make it. You're trying to do something that is basically almost as complicated as the real thing all alone! It's natural to feel like you're pushing #%&*$# up hill.

Take a perspective check and approach it with that in mind. Maybe try joining a squadron or something.


Let's pretend I got the BWOC badge to embed here.

Wenn ihr sieg im deine Kampf selbst gegen, wirst schwer wie stahl sein.
#4230262 - 02/17/16 05:10 PM Re: Best way to learn Falcon 4 [Re: Gigolety]  
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Come over to the Veteran Gaming BMS server sometime. Good group of mature, serious guys who want to have fun and are patient and ready to help.
http://www.veterans-gaming.com/vg-plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?39754


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#4230365 - 02/17/16 09:57 PM Re: Best way to learn Falcon 4 [Re: Darren]  
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- Ice Offline
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- Ice  Offline
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First things first --- slow down. Falcon 4 and any detailed study sims are very, very complex simulations. There are people who have been playing Falcon for decades and are still learning new things. I suspect you're trying to "eat the elephant" in one bite. Impossible to do.

For example, I never heard back from you regarding bullseye. Did you ever sort that out? When I first was learning Falcon (Falcon 4 Allied Force), I never really grasped bullseye so I played without it and completed a campaign without ever using it. I also limited myself to A-G roles due to lack of TrackIR and I was terrible at panning the camera and keeping SA. If engaged with A-A, I would just run.

I could've learned about bullseye then. I could've also learned how to pan the camera with a joystick hat switch, or learned how to use the padlock views and the canopy cues (arrows). I could've studied how to do A-A dogfights (I could do BVR, but WVR was my big weakness). I chose to ignore these and instead stick with A-G and build up from there.

You don't just pick up Falcon 4 and two weeks later expect to be flying campaigns like a real-life F-16 pilot. You just don't. It takes **THEM** years and years of practice and study to get to that point, and **THEY** do that for a living. So take it easy on yourself.


Originally Posted By: Darren
The bms manual makes my anxiety go through the roof.

Why? You don't have to memorize everything. You don't have to understand everything. Who cares if the normal fuel flow is from the external wing tank to the internal tank to the forward/aft tanks? If you know how to read the needles, the rest is just icing on the cake.

Don't know how the data link works? Who cares? If you're flying solo, you probably don't need it. If you're flying in a virtual squadron, someone can give you the quick-and-dirty in 5 minutes. Until then, don't sweat it.

OOOO!! BMS 4.33 comes with buddy-lasing capabilities! So what? If you're flying solo, you'll be lasing your own bombs. If you're flying in a virtual squadron, someone can give you the quick-and-dirty in 3 minutes. Until then, you can ignore this.


Originally Posted By: Darren
I read it but my mind rejects it and refuses to commit anything to memory.
I could read the same paragraph twenty times and my mind would reject it.

I suspect you're a bit like me. I don't really grasp info until I find out what it's really for.

I remember back when A-10C came out and someone was saying he loved reading the manual and because of him doing his studying, when he encountered an emergency situation in the game, he knew exactly how to deal with it. Good for him. I probably would've just paused the game and looked up what I needed to do, or most likely just continued on as best I can. I remember people would brag about being able to create a flightplan from scratch using the built-in computer in the A-10C.... okay, cool, but how many times will you actually use that knowledge?

I think you'd benefit best by being demo-ed a procedure then following it, **THEN** going into the manual to see why/how it works.


Originally Posted By: Darren
Now I'm 49,F4 ring binder still locked away gathering dust,I'm at a stage where my mind is just too old and worn to comprehend F4.

You don't need the F4 ring binder. BMS comes with its own manuals. Go ahead and print them out, if nothing but for easy access. It's much easier to reference a physical copy as you play and pause the game. So go ahead. I probably printed out the Allied Force manual 3-4 times. I printed out a full copy of the BMS 4.32 manual, and I'll be printing out a copy of the 4.33 manual soon.


Originally Posted By: Darren
P.S. I have done everything I have to try to get my mind in condition to play this but you can't change yur brain.
If you're dumb you're dumb and you can't have the privelage of enjoying the sim like the narcissists do.
I have given up alcohol,coffee(over a year coffee free,I run,I exercise,I drum,I'm doing everything I can to try to kick this brain into gear so I can play Falcon BMS but I still get anxiety.

Just because your brain goes into a panic state doesn't mean you can't grasp BMS. Just because BMS is geared for the full-switchology simmer doesn't mean you can't play BMS. Like I said, you can turn off Bullseye. You can have unlimited fuel and ammo. You can even enable invulnerability!! Don't know how to start up? Choose TAXI or RUNWAY start. I finished a campaign in Allied Force and never did a cold start. Situation awareness down by your ankles? Turn on labels. One guy ran a crash course on A-A tactics and evasion and we had labels on so we could see, and thus understand, what was going on.

This is a game. A hard-core, full-switch simulation, but still a game. Play it with all the aids you think you need, and then more. Then slowly take the aids off as you gain confidence. Nobody wakes up one morning when they're 30 and just takes a superbike and tears up the track. They started when they were 4 or 5 years old on a bicycle with training wheels and worked from there.


Quote:
You go online ,get called all kinds of names by the Veruca Salts who call you a loser or a fag or RTFM.

RTFM is an often-used phrase for sims like these, but I find people who are lazy to use this phrase as well. "RTFM" for me translates to "what you want is in the manual somewhere so go ahead and sift through 300+ pages of material for maybe 5 words that can help you because I'm too lazy to help a newbie such as yourself because I never was a newbie, I never asked newbie questions, I was born a god of simulations and I knew how to activate NWS before I even spoke my first word."

So if anyone simply tells you to "RTFM," feel free to ignore them from that point on. The really helpful community members will **STILL** give you a "RTFM" message, but this would be worded in a kinder way and would include which .PDF, what page, and under what heading you need to look at. When that happens, sit up and listen to THOSE folks. Those are the guys you will learn from.


Originally Posted By: Darren
At least dumb people will look you in the eye and buy you a beer.

Ask a stupid question and you'll be stupid for 5 minutes. Don't ask a stupid question and you'll be stupid for life.

Your choice, really.
Do you just want to come here and rant about how impossible it is to tackle BMS?
Or do you want to pick a topic to learn and ask how to go about it?

Do you just want to moan and gripe about how fragmented the information is? (it used to be, but it is less so now)
Or do you want help to know where to look for to study a particular technique?


- Ice
#4230415 - 02/18/16 12:26 AM Re: Best way to learn Falcon 4 [Re: Gigolety]  
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PropNut Offline
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Greenville, Michigan
Yep, what he said ^

I know the feeling though, I learn a little, start to get comfortable with the sim and then lose interest after a few particularly frustrating evenings in the sim. Then it is off to another game/sim/obsession and after a year or two (or three) back to try my hand at Falcon again.

Someone asked me to create an ICP module for them last week...since tinkering in the shop is my real obsession and my driving and flying sims my excuse, my interest in Falcon (and flight sims in general) is ascending again. Will I actually become proficient this time? Time will tell....and of course there is always Fallout 4, Assetto Corsa, or Euro Truck Simulator 2. biggrin


F/A-18C Hornet cockpit build project:

http://hornetpits.org/index.php?topic=15.0
#4230468 - 02/18/16 05:52 AM Re: Best way to learn Falcon 4 [Re: Gigolety]  
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theOden Offline
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Yep, what they said ^
(see what I did there?)

Like Ice said, been flying Falcon 10+ years and still learn new things now and then - despite being 49 so age is not an issue.

Do not skip the beer smile

Start off easy, slap two 3-pack Mk 82's under your wings and just fly out and try target something. When bombs don't drop check the 700 page manual for that specific problem and ignore all other text.
(btw, check Master Arm switch smile )

Fly that until borderline bored and then switch those Mk82's to a pair of AGM-65 (Maverick) and repeat procedure.

Your first steps will still struggle and that's when it comes in handy to ask in this forum section rather then searching the manual in frustration (but always try the manual first, will help you in the future).

I have a 4-pack training missions (tactial engagements or TE's as they are known), PM me your email is you think they could help you move deeper into Falcon universe (once down into falcon you will never get out hehe)

Last edited by theOden; 02/18/16 05:52 AM.
#4232146 - 02/22/16 02:11 PM Re: Best way to learn Falcon 4 [Re: Gigolety]  
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Posts: 200
Darren Offline
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Darren  Offline
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Posts: 200
I found a great bms Ch HOTAS profile.
Just very daunting starting.
Playing iracing atm and having fun fun fun.
I want to give bms a real shot before I get old and die :-(

#4232324 - 02/22/16 09:39 PM Re: Best way to learn Falcon 4 [Re: Gigolety]  
Joined: Jun 2005
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- Ice Offline
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- Ice  Offline
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Posts: 16,082
Philippines / North East UK
I think one thing you have to realize is that BMS is not something you "just pick up." Shooters and racing games are easy enough in that you know what you need to do, you just need to learn the characteristics of your current gun or car.

BMS is easy if all you want to do is take off, fly around, and land. Once you want to start giving the real sim a go, you'll have to commit to it. You'll have to spend a little study time, a little testing time, in order to learn how the system works. Want to land in bad weather using instruments or ILS? You've got some reading to do. Want to learn how to do pop-up attacks or buddy lasing? You've got some reading to do. Even if all it is is asking a question on the forums and reading the answers.... some people make it look easy.... and it is --- once you get the hang of it! The first couple of times would most likely be frustrating.

Take air-to-air refuelling for example. Theory is very easy. Request refuel at 10nm from tanker, link up with tanker, fly to a specific point near the boom, get clearance, fly closer, get fuel, top up tanks, disconnect, say "thank you, bye!" Actually getting comfortable flying so close to the tanker, actually getting the fine adjustments needed to stay there, that needs practice. Lots of it.

If you really want to give BMS a real shot, the community is here ready to help you out. But you'll still need to do the studying and practice.

A little secret -- sometimes, practicing a technique **IS** the whole point of a flight and that becomes a lot of fun! It doesn't have to always be campaigns, you know!


- Ice
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