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#3689235 - 11/27/12 10:54 AM Re: RAZBAM; Mig-29 [Re: SkateZilla]
scotsmen54 Offline
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Well what you say about the F-22 also holds for the Eurofighter. Don't disagree with you on those points. I don't think you would get any pilot talking about the systems IMHO. There is info available on the WEB and I think that would be the place to get information but it still would only tell you what it resembles so to speak. Good enough for most simulation but would not pass ED's requirements for a DCS aircraft.

Well FSX is doing better of late. Some of the new aircraft coming on are great. Yes the old stuff was a little lame but things are vastly improving for FSX for what ever reason. P3D, photo Scenery etc. and yes it carries price tags.

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#3689242 - 11/27/12 11:11 AM Re: RAZBAM; Mig-29 [Re: Silver_Dragon]
SkateZilla Offline
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There is Wind Tunnel data for the YF-22 and EF-2000, just have to know where to get them.

i wasnt saying pilots will describe systems in detail, just a general map of things, and program from there.

if they were able to get a hold of a pilots manual, then that changes most of the guess work. but that's not gonna happen.

The SuperHornet is still mostly classified outside of Windtunnel Data and some systems.

The A-10C itself has classified systems in it.
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#3689243 - 11/27/12 11:15 AM Re: RAZBAM; Mig-29 [Re: Biggles07]
GrayGhost Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Biggles07
Of course Ghost, agreed. Should be a lot easier getting info due to the GDR connection too. I suppose it matters not really though since Typhoons and Raptors etc are being made, obviously going into extreme guesstimate territory.


The guys who are making the Tiffy add-on actually have sufficient information to earn a DCS label smile
On the other hand, no such info exists for an F-22, so the F-22 is all guesswork.

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I think even the A10-C might be capable of a few more things than we know at present through the DCS sim. So it goes. smile


That's right. Even if we were to go back in time to the actual software version of the A-10C modeled in DCS, there is a lot of stuff missing. To give you a hint, I don't think you've ever seen a flight sim with an accurately modeled modern RWR ... never mind the inter-operation of that with the radar etc ... smile

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I'd love to see ED make a Mig29A/B for the next project after the US fixed wing, or an earlier Flanker. That would be great.


It will come at some point. smile

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Yeah I can imagine it being a nightmare getting the gen on Military info in Putins Russia. But..... please, Comrade Yetevsky....I'm....just..... making a computer game...*'Putt, Putt' muffled silencer shots....Silence* smile Doesn't bear thinking about, really.


Yep, pretty much. FOr the moment, may as well stick to MiG-29A/B and their known upgrades, and the Su-27S/K.
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#3689244 - 11/27/12 11:17 AM Re: RAZBAM; Mig-29 [Re: SkateZilla]
GrayGhost Online   content
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Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
There is Wind Tunnel data for the YF-22 and EF-2000, just have to know where to get them.


That data isn't terribly helpful. It's performance charts that you want, since that will eliminate guesswork when modeling aircraft performance.
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#3689254 - 11/27/12 11:33 AM Re: RAZBAM; Mig-29 [Re: Silver_Dragon]
SkateZilla Offline
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for the EAFMs, our team uses Wind Tunnel data and controller logic. with the performance charts.

Performance Charts give you a Performance Chart, but it doesnt give your Aerodynamic Data that you need to input into the API to model Aerodynamic Characteristics of the Airframe.

Without that data, the plane will not fly, stall, or fall realistically.

Without the Controller Logic (thrust, pitch, roll, yaw, dampening etc), the plane will not react to control inputs realistically.


Realistically we prolly dont need Perf Charts to make an EAFM.

Performance charts are there for a Benchmark Comparison of the Flight model with Aero Data. which if you're using Wind Tunnel Docs for the Aero, teh Data should be correct and when you run a test, the Performance of the FM should match the charts.


Using only Charts, all you can do is extract a few numbers to make an SFM, which uses the same STALL and General Performance Data for All Aircraft.


Edited by SkateZilla (11/27/12 11:41 AM)
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#3689258 - 11/27/12 11:41 AM Re: RAZBAM; Mig-29 [Re: Biggles07]
Ibex Offline
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Registered: 12/29/08
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Originally Posted By: Biggles07


Looks like the SMT (CMT same?) upgrade from the drawing, and they might be doing a K as well? Have to wait for official announcement I suppose. Not an expert on the Russian birds, but I'm sure the SMT has a much better avionics suite, 2 MFDS and upgraded radar etc. Cat will probably know. smile

Interesting. smile


The drawing is written in cyrillic alphabet, were what we see as the letter 'C' actually is an 'S', think 'CCCP' and 'SSSR' smile

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#3689259 - 11/27/12 11:43 AM Re: RAZBAM; Mig-29 [Re: Silver_Dragon]
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Yes, and that's great for making the aircraft work with controls and edge conditions realistically, I agree. Without the performance data however you won't be able to check if your simulation performs correctly.
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#3689262 - 11/27/12 11:46 AM Re: RAZBAM; Mig-29 [Re: Silver_Dragon]
SkateZilla Offline
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like i said, we use them for benchmark/comparison.

I can make a SFM match the charts for flight, but the plane will stall like the FC3 F-15C/SU27/SU34/MIG29., and all other SFM planes in DCSW, which is unrealistic,

I dont code EAFMs for the team, I can do SFMs that we use on AC while the EAFM is being coded.

Which is basic data and basic engine data. but as I've said, the plane will stall and fall just like other planes in DCSW that use SFM.

when the VRC F-16 AFM Flight Model Demo is public, fly that and then turn around and FLY the F-16 with the DCSW SFM. (might wanna have a barf bag ready), as the difference is that much.


(edit, By Team, I mean team VRC (Virtual Reality Combat), not RazBam). Just to keep people from getting the wrong Idea.)


Edited by SkateZilla (11/27/12 11:49 AM)
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#3689264 - 11/27/12 11:49 AM Re: RAZBAM; Mig-29 [Re: Ibex]
Biggles07 Offline
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Registered: 01/22/09
Posts: 2474
Loc: Newcastle Upon Tyne, England.
Originally Posted By: Ibex
Originally Posted By: Biggles07


Looks like the SMT (CMT same?) upgrade from the drawing, and they might be doing a K as well? Have to wait for official announcement I suppose. Not an expert on the Russian birds, but I'm sure the SMT has a much better avionics suite, 2 MFDS and upgraded radar etc. Cat will probably know. smile

Interesting. smile


The drawing is written in cyrillic alphabet, were what we see as the letter 'C' actually is an 'S', think 'CCCP' and 'SSSR' smile


Hehe, aye thats what I thought when I wrote 'same'. Crazy Easterners with their funny words. biggrin Took me a while to figure out the S and C models were one and the same lol. hahaha
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#3689265 - 11/27/12 11:51 AM Re: RAZBAM; Mig-29 [Re: Silver_Dragon]
SkateZilla Offline
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and I wouldnt mind a MIG-29 with an EAFM.... as the FC3 SFM MIGs blow Chunks in High AoA Stall situations.
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