#3673022 - 10/31/12 07:40 PM
Re: New pre-order out!
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PanzerMeyer
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What if the pilot is recovering from a hangover from last nights party at the officers mess..?
;-)
Oh just like Bruno Stachel!
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
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#3673632 - 11/01/12 06:50 PM
Re: New pre-order out!
[Re: LukeFF]
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PatrickAWilson
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Back on topic...the Halb D.II will be a nice fit for 1916 missions, for sure. It's a nice addition fer sure. Now it needs some of its natural prey (FE2b, BE2c/e).
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#3673780 - 11/01/12 11:12 PM
Re: New pre-order out!
[Re: 2Lt_Joch]
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Do I smell that you have the only document (in existance) that "proves" clerget engined Camel could catch an Albie, although all the sources we have claim it couldnt (including all pilot accounts from both sides in the war)?
well no, the issue is probably more complicated and I don't really have an answer. The facts and the problems/issues as I see them: 1. According to tests, a perfect 130 hp Clerget Camel could reach 113 mph as in the game. An Alb D.Va is either at 109 or 116 mph. 2. According to field tests conducted at St-Omer, some production Camels matched the tests results, some did not. Although it is not clear whether this is caused by normal variations in WW1 aircraft or by production quality issues. 3. British license built Clerget engines were supposed to be of poorer quality than the french built models (more on that below), but according to production records, of the 1500 or so Clerget engines the RFC accepted in 1917, 879 (58%) came from France. 4. According to some sources, most of the quality issues with the Clergets built by Gwynnes, the main British supplier, had been resolved by the end of 1916. 5. The issue with the Clergets appears to be more of a design issue, the piston ("obdurator") rings wore out prematurely, sometimes failing completely in as little as 15 hours. As they wore down, it would cause a loss of compression/power in the engine. However, the Clerget was a very simple design and a complete stripping/overhaul of the engine could be done at the squadron level in as little as half a day. The RNAS, which had a very strict maintenance schedule, do not appear to have had the same issue with their Clergets in the Triplane which suggests there may have been a maintenance issue with the RFC squadrons. 6. Even if some Camels had performance issues, this may be more of an operational rather than a tactical issue. As in all Air Forces, the best pilots would get the best planes and poor performing planes would either be left behind or abort back to base, so the planes the Germans fought would usually be the best condition Camels. So the situation is not entirely clear. The bigger point however is what would be the appropriate solution? I think we can all agree that the current situation where 100% of Camels are faster than 100% of the Alb D.Vs 100% of the time is not ideal. However, I dont think making 100% of the Alb D.Vs faster than 100% of the Camels 100% of the time is the solution either. An ideal solution would be if performance was variable within a certain defined range to take into account production variations/maintenance issues so that when a Camel matched up with a Alb D.V, neither pilot would know which is faster... ...it would certainly make online dogfights more interesting. I accept what youre saying, but can't remember reading a single quote where a Camel pilot suggests they could catch any of the common Central scouts, the DR1 being the exception of course. I don't see this as a complicated issue, the ROF Camel is faster than the DVa at all altitudes.
WAS C2D 8500 3.16ghz, 285gtx 1gb, 4gig ram, XP NOW Win7 64, I5 2500K, SSD, 8Gig ram, GTX 570
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#3673865 - 11/02/12 02:23 AM
Re: New pre-order out!
[Re: Mogster]
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2Lt_Joch
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I accept what youre saying, but can't remember reading a single quote where a Camel pilot suggests they could catch any of the common Central scouts, the DR1 being the exception of course.
and how many biographies of Camel pilots did you read?
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#3674242 - 11/02/12 07:36 PM
Re: New pre-order out!
[Re: 2Lt_Joch]
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I accept what youre saying, but can't remember reading a single quote where a Camel pilot suggests they could catch any of the common Central scouts, the DR1 being the exception of course.
and how many biographies of Camel pilots did you read? There's plenty of after combat reports from 46 squadrons Victor Yeates and Arthur Gould Lee, both mention not being able to run from a fight, I don't remember them mentioning being able to run down Central scouts with ease like the ROF Camel does. Peter Hart's books have combat reports from RNAS pilots, I don't remember comments about the Camel's speed advantage over the opposition. The ROF Camel and Albatros just don't feel right at the moment, that's not scientific I agree. I don't want the Camel knobbled or the Albatros turned into a speed machine, just the Camel made maybe 5mph slower with the Albatros given a slight speed advantage.
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#3674326 - 11/02/12 11:12 PM
Re: New pre-order out!
[Re: Trooper117]
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I agree, but WW1 flight data at the very best is patchy with many undocumented variables.
Use the available data but finish with a sanity check against historical memoirs. I just dont feel the current Camel (and Pup) pass the sanity check, alternative data is available.
WAS C2D 8500 3.16ghz, 285gtx 1gb, 4gig ram, XP NOW Win7 64, I5 2500K, SSD, 8Gig ram, GTX 570
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#3674501 - 11/03/12 09:50 AM
Re: New pre-order out!
[Re: Trooper117]
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The ROF Albatros DVa does 105mph, the Camel does 118. Imagine a WW2 sim where the Zero's faster than the F4U, it's a serious immersion killer.
I love ROF but I'm not blind to its faults.
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#3674545 - 11/03/12 12:38 PM
Re: New pre-order out!
[Re: Trooper117]
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2Lt_Joch
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I am not saying we should ignore pilot memoirs, the problem is more finding reliable info that can be used in flight modeling. In excerpts I have read, one side or another starts with an energy advantage and the dogfight is either resolved quickly or becomes a turning fight.
For example, I was reading excerpts from Norman Macmillan's "Into the Blue", who flew Camels. He talks about 2 scraps in sept.1917. In the first, they came upon 2 DFWs covered by 5-6 Albs. He and his wingman dove down on the DFWs, took them both out on the first pass and escaped before the Albs could react.
In the second a few days later, he was part of a flight of 7 Camels that ran into 21 German scouts, 3 DR1 and the rest Albs. While he is assessing the situation, one of the younger pilots dives down to attack an Alb. Macmillan immediately dives down to support him. The first Camel is engaged and shot down by a DR.1. Macmillan is upset that the Camel pilot did not use his plane's "superior maneuverability" to escape. Macmillan immediately goes after the DR.1 and they get into a rapidly descending turning fight at a 60 degree angle from 14,000 feet down to almost ground level, with Macmillan stuck to the DR.1s tail, until he shoots him down. At this point, all the other planes have gone, so he goes back to base.
Macmillan appears to have had utmost confidence in his Camel, although he does not provide any really useful info on modeling the planes.
Intel Q9550, Gyga P35-DS3R, XFX 6950 XXX, 27" widescreen, 8 g. DDR2 @800, 2xWDRaptor 36g HD @ RAID 0, 1tb WD Caviar black HD, X-Fi Fatal1ty, win 7 64bit ultimate, Cougar/FSSB/HS1, Tir4.
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#3675302 - 11/04/12 09:24 PM
Re: New pre-order out!
[Re: Trooper117]
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ArgonV
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Good news on the Halb D.II, some more early war kites to mount! Will be a great match for the D.H.2 and should get owned by Nieuport 11s if one is not careful.
"Go Fly A Kite!" -Jason R. FS-WWI Project Leader FS-WWI Plane Pack SiteIntel i9 10900k Gigabyte Z490 Aorus Elite AC 64GB Corsair DDR4 2933 Vengeance RGB Pro AMD XFX 7900 XTX Merc310 Black Edition LG UltraGear 38GN95B-B 38" monitor Corsair HX1200 PSU 1TB EVO 980 Pro M.2 PCIe x4 SSD 2TB EVO 980 Pro M.2 PCIe x4 SSD Two 2TB EVO 860 SSDs Sound Blaster ZxR Win 10 x64 Pro HOTAS Cougar #4069 w/Uber II Nxt mod #284 & UTM bushings
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Exodus
by RedOneAlpha. 04/18/24 05:46 PM
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