Today I did what I had intended for so long - I visited the cradle of German aviation: Johannisthal.
Since I got there a bit late (after school), I only sneaked through the remains of the buildings at
the northern side. I cannot say, if any of the ruins was as old as from the time of WW1, but there
were two long work halls (2), where the old LVG Workhalls are in my plan.

Getting in took me a while, until I found a hole in the high metal fences. Most of the northern end
is closed for public and wildly overgrown. The most buildings look like they could be from the days
of the "Third Reich". Many of them are collapsing now. All drive- and walkways were barricaded with
chopped down trees; metal barriers or at least red-white barrier tapes everywhere.

Finally I came to the old main gate, and searched for the Albatros workshop. I really found a workshop
for woodworks (3) at that spot, and it looked like being at least as old as from the 30s. Could it be
the original Albatros building? I do not know, but I'll do more research.

Arriving at S-Bahnstation "Schöneweide" (1) was like a trip back in time. The buildings on the platform
and the iron columns are from the days, when the S-Bahn was built. It may well be, that Max Immelmann
and other aviators have seen the same buildings, when they arrived or travelled from here.

Here are a tableau with old pics from the DLR website (formerly DVL - Deutsche Versuchsanstalt für
Luftfahrt); and also one with my photos from today.

http://www.dlr.de/dlr/desktopdefault.aspx/tabid-10269/863_read-1386/

Pretty cool! Wish I could have checked it out with you.

Can you show on the map where pictures 2 and 3 were taken?

Most of the Johannisthal photos I have show wooden buildings, so what's there may be from the Luftwaffe era. I don't know the history of the airfield in that time and how heavily damaged it was in WW2. Anyway, I have a photo of an Albatros J2 that shows a very large building behind it that's steel framed with high windows, similar to that in photo 2. I'll go and compare all this stuff and report back.

JFM, if you should ever come to Berlin, we could go there again,
and if the gap in the fence is still there, we shall slip in there.

My photos were all taken at the northern end of the field.
Pic 2 was taken, where the LVG buildings are in the map.
Pic 3 was taken, where the Albatros building was.

But I guess you are right - the Albatros building must have been bigger.

Very interesting, Olham. Thanks for posting.

I took your modern diagram and pasted over Google Earth to try to figure out if any of the original buildings are still there. This is only approximate but very few of the buildings on the diagram have modern counterparts. But your Albastros building is one of the tantalizing ones. Today there's a building (actually 2 adjacent buildings with a very small gap between them) that is approximately the same size, shape, orientation, and position of the black square on your diagram.

In Google Earth, it looks like this building is still in operation from all the vehicles in the parking lot, and the picture is only 2 years old. It also appears to have the newest roof in the neighborhood. This roof is all 1 level, without the raised central section shown in your photo #2. So I don't think we're talking about the same building.

The one I'm looking at in Google Earth is at 52^ 26' 21.42" N, 13^ 30' 30.60" E, which corresponds to the building labeled "Albatros" in the diagram. I think your picture #2 is the building at 52^ 26' 33.96" N, 13^ 30' 49.24" E. The "modern" building there is of the same size, shape, orientation, and position as "Terrace 1" on the diagram, and looks quite abandoned in Google Earth. It has the same sort of roof as in your picture #2. Perhaps this one is actually a survivor from back in the day? OTOH, it could be a more "recent" building using the original foundation.

Jim, I found this old magazine cover showing Johannisthal from the air (well, lots of retouche of course).
If the buildings in the foreground are the airship hangars, then the building in the background could be
Albatros Flugzeugwerke Johannisthal.

Very nice Olham!

Found two more pics - Albatros-Werke, and AGO Flugzeugwerke.

Wow. Based on my own gazings at your pics and diagrams, it would seem that the building at 52°26'20.55"N, 13°30'30.07"E would be close to the position indicated on the diagram. But the roof is different from the one on the magazine cover, though it looks like it could pass for the roof in the inside photo of the Albatros-Werke or the AGO Flugzeugwerke. The Albatros-Werke inside photo looks too long and skinny, but such buildings as these often had main "aisles" with shops, etc on each side, and the roof of the building I indicated looks like that. It does look like a new roof, though, with an older building right alongside (east, or right hand side). And the cars in the lot? Did you go to this building? Is it being used? Then, too, I show it being 52 meter x 40 meters (inclding the older-roofed building). Is that big enough?

Fascinating, and great pics!

You could be right, Bullethead, about the use of the same foundations.
Here is the excerpt from the map with a red "x" marking the building in my photo (3).
There is a terrain just north of it, which is pretty much square, and larger (the dark
asphalt area in my pic here). But the buildings which the satelite shows on that part
have all been torn down recently.

Nice Olham, good reading.

Okay, so we were indeed talking about the same building! I'm not sure I'd rule it out yet, though it has probably been renovated. Still, the ceilings seem a bit low. I'm not sure about the size, maybe by comparing wing spans you could see roughly how long the Albatross building is in you inside picture. Another possibility is to check out WWII diagrams of the area, if you can find one.

I know your comment was addressed to JFM and not me, but I'd love poking around there, I love stuff like that, but I've only been across the Atlantic once and I don't see my fortunes changing any time soon!

Best,

Tom

Olham,

Yes, in that overhead, that's Albatros. The rectangle out front (in a better res photo) appears to be bleachers. I also believe that by 1918 Albatros had added a further facility near there as well. I don't have an aerial of that but I can see it in the shot with the J2. I have a great ground view of Albatros and the building facades were entirely wood.

I have to dash away for a few but I'll post some photos when I get back.

I have found a phot - maybe the same you mentioned. This shows clearly, that the buildings
which are on that site now, are newer ones. I had been at the right spot, but there was
nothing left.

No, that's not the one I was talking about, but it's a good shot. BTW, I was wrong earlier when I said the building was all wood. I just looked at the shot I have closely and part of the building is brick.

All these photos here show either pre or early war stuff. Johannisthal expanded greatly during the war. Look at this 1917 map:



Note that Albatros has expanded their facilities. What's there today is too small for even the first Albatros facility, although it's definitely in the same location. Note that the smaller Zeppelin hangar is gone from the map. It burned down in 1915 or 1916, according to my German researcher friend. Also, note the RR tracks leading to the Albatros buildings. Lots and lots of wood going there and planes going out.

JFM, I took your plan and put it over a satelite image, and here are the outlines
of the Albatros buildings (orange). I guess the buildings drawn into that map are
not perfectly accurate. I think that the obligue long barrack at the lower right
could be a remaining building or at least be built on the foundation of the old.
That would mean, that the orange outline of the lower right building would have
to be further down. But that is still guesswork of course.

You are right, probably not exactly nth-degree to scale and exact location, no. Still, that building at bottom left doesn't resemble the Albatros building at all, and judging by the adjacent vehicles it's too small. But that surrounding area is where the Albatros facilities were, yes. The oblique area at bottom right is where a newer building was, and it's still oblique (IMO) because that's how that plot of land was bought and sold over the years. Wildly speculative. But, what's there now doesn't resemble the newer Albatros facilities (1917-1918) at all.

Soccer fields at top are where the big Zeppelin hangar used to be, but that's fairly obvious!

Damn, I just noticed, that I had mixed up the numbers from the tableau in post #1
in the text - I have corrected that now.