The guy who is helping me to develop the mod for the cougar TQS handle afterbuter/idle detents should be able to replicate other parts with a cnc machine. i can provoide him originals to be 3d scanned (scan cost aound 100€ per component) of the cougar and the SFS f15 both throttle and stick grips.
How much is a reasonable price for milled metal (aluminum or steel) parts?
Also we are thinking about a full metal HOTAS with MaRS or hall sensors and replaceable grips, how much do you thing it would be a right price? (mean what woudld you pay for an high grade machines stuff?)

Myself I'm not interested to make money about it just to cover the costs, since i don't own any patent this would be a "fan project" and it could turn to be a pie in the sky but if the final costs are reasonable and someone is interested i coud do the same for other people so in deed to know what would you like and how much money do you think is reasonable.
Any ideas are welcome.

I think what costs the "manufacturer" deems reasonable is:
1. Cost of materials
2. Rate per hour (work) x number of hours needed per part
3. Cover for shipping

So the reasonable price would be X = 1+2+3. As a supporter of the hobby, I would not consider paying less than X as that makes it unsustainable, even though I would love to have all the toys for just peanuts.

Any chance of pics of this part? At this time, I think the demand is more for a throttle assembly as we only have the Cougar and Warthog throttle as realistic replicas and the handles on them are not replaceable. If someone could design a throttle assembly that allows replaceable handles (like the WH joystick but with different stick options), they'd have good business I would think!

Good idea the swapable handles (maybe mig29 to start). For now i'm just discussing the feasibility with the guy who has the cnc machine, a single custom built HOTAS could cost more than 600€ but that contains a lot of developmental costs, i think we can place the final thing in the same range of the warthog (but made on order and with a control quality much better since once i have the designs that i will use to build my set i can easily produce other units if someone wants them) so no pic or cad designs the idea started when i asked him to replicate my suncom f15 grip in aluminum. i als thougt about replicating the warthog centering mechanism but something with a cardanic jount like the cougar nxt or evenstran is more likely to happen. For now is just all brainstorming.

Well, the main challenge in custom throttle handles is the layout of the base unit. As you know, the Cougar throttle is connected "to the side" while the WH throttle is connected under the handle to the base. Tradeoffs will have to be made, though it will be interesting what someone comes up with.

IMHO the best way to lower costs is to collect orders of say 10-15 orders, that way the costs of manufacture can be spread around more. To put it at 600Euro is too expensive; heck putting it at the same price as the WH is risky as the WH is a product of an established company.... even the WH had to "pass the test" of approval from simmers; your part/product will be the same. Say about 1/2 or 1/3 of the WH price, about £100-150 might be a nice spot to try for. Obviously a one-off is going to be significantly more expensive.

EDIT: I was talking about a price for the throttle only.... not a full HOTAS setup...

Another option I'll toss out there: Options for HOTAS controls sans control boards. Put another way, what would arrive at my door is a HOTAS with a munch of wires dangling out the bottom, so I can wire it up to my Leo Board. That said, here's my rough break down of what I personally am willing AND able to pay for a HOTAS (all prices in US $):

~$200-$300:
All metal replica of the Suncom SFS (or equivalent dual throttle replicating those found in F/A 18, F-15, F-22, etc)that would feature the following:
-Realistic range of travel (allows for much finer control inputs, this is a big one for me!)
-Adjustable throttle tension via easily accessed lever on side. (such as in the SFS)
-Lift gates (such as those in the A-10 and F/A-18 that start the engines) and adjustable afterburner detentes.
-Buttons/switches on the base would be neat (such as the Warthog), but not really needed imho.
-Perhaps having USB ports in the extensions of the handles, so we can extend the units relatively easily with some custom fabrication.


~$300-$450:
All Metal replica of F-15 or F/A-18 Handle With the following (frankly, I'd settle for any U.S. 5th or next gen fighter though, something with lots of hat switches is key):
-Realistic, Adjustable range of travel (noticing a theme )
-Adjustable stick tension.
-Option to floor or desk mount (I'd suggest using that removable handle idea to install a handle extension)
-Not sure of the technical term, but something similar to the axis scheme of the CH sticks would be ideal
-smooth feel through center (stick should not feel 'snappy')

$600:
A stick with all of the above plus realistic force feedback, and some kind of software support for applicable games.


General feature requests:
-where ever possible, use of off the shelf, easily accessible components,so we can repair this unit down the road would be appreciated. In general, I would want to see easy maintenance a tier 1 design consideration. If I'm paying the better part of a grand for video game controls, I expect the manufacturer to take them and me seriously. You're looking to sell the real deal to the hard-core crowd. We're ready to maintain our own equipment.

-No cables running out of unit. Instead, perhaps use something like a USB port so that we can buy whatever length cable suits our purpose using a male to male ext.

-Metal construction would be ideal, but I'd buy high-quality plastic too if it's significantly cheaper.

I'm willing to pay this much because for the cost of a halfway decent gaming rig, these components would out live many, many upgrades. I fully expect a decade or more of use out of them (with routine maintenance being expected) and I'm willing to pay for that quality.


PS: Have you thought of Kick-starter btw?

I was going anyway to make them "bodnar friendly" since this is not a commercial prodiction but aimed to havr higher quality standard the price is what i need to understand before doing anything, ill try to work some CAD cad ketches and material research . I would like to keep this something done as hobby because i don't have funds and access to the patents of the controls im going to replicate, thanks for the advices keep them coming.

I'm not sure on price, but I'd be very interested in a reasonably priced f-35 stick (because it not only looks cool, but has tons of buttons and a good layout). I'd prefer to have quality force feedback on it, though I'm afraid that would increase the price too much. I definitely like AggressorBlue's idea of having a removable handle to easily extend the stick if desired.

Also - to program these sticks, would we have to get software off the internet? (I forget the names, but I know there's at least one free, and one you can buy. Further - I don't know the functionality of these programs. Basically, how they compare to robust solutions like the CH manager or TARGET and whether you could program one button to act as a "shift" or mode changer for both throttle and stick).

As far as throttles - would it be possible to have a base where you could swap out a dual throttle (ie: F-22) for a single throttle stick? (ie: F-35). Those would probably be the only throttles I'd be interested in - something with plenty of buttons that I can use for any flight sim, with single engine and dual engine variants. And, if I had to pick only one I'd go with a dual throttle. You can always have one programmed to something else, or just not used.

For dual throttles, perhaps an option lock them together?

I think you would be doing exceptionally well to produce a fully machined HOTAS with better quality than the hog while doing it for the same cost.

Make sure you are really confident of the costs before you start making them, my advice anyway

If we're talking custom HOTAS equipment...

I wouldn't mind having a F-16C grip that felt really nice like the TM HOTAS Cougar's...with a trigger connected to a potentiometer or Hall sensor. The specific reason for this is that I'd wire up the CH Fighterstick PCB in it (because the Control Manager is one awesome piece of software), and the stock Fighterstick doesn't have a dual-stage trigger or paddle switch.

Solution? Use the trigger microswitch for the paddle switch, move the throttle wheel pot to the trigger, and use Control Manager Scripting to implement the dual-stage trigger.

I know it'll work in theory, but I don't have the expertise or equipment needed to perform such a radical modification on the stock Fighterstick.

sounds interesting, XBOX shoulder triggers works like that and is no big deal to be achieved, but why dont use a simple dual stage trigger?
i have also a ch fighterstick (ADB version) the mounting coollar shoud be the same the guy told me that he know someno who deos carbon fiber grips for helicopters pilots i can ask ho much would it cost to do an hybrid grip (cougar grip with Fighterstick collar)

Or just include a regular two-stage trigger that can read as two button inputs...

Occam's razor

Just realized that due to price Concerns is better option to build separately custom made to order stick and throttle units rather that a full HOTAS (trhotte itself will cost more that the stick due to complexity), due to higher demand pf throttle I'll start with that while the CNC guy works on the scans of the stick grips.
Once i prepared plans for my set (it all started because i wanted a modular system for myself) I'll be able to tell you how much i paid for the units. Thansk for the suggestions (keep sending them).

BTW if someone has (or know where to find) CAD designs of the throttle and stick of f22 f35 f15 f16 etc (or whatever you dream to have in your cockpits please send me a PM, keep in mind that i live in Italy so don't violate any international law by sending classified stuff, i don't want to be waken up in the middle of the night because some FBI squad agent tried to kick down my door (is armored) .

I agree, and I think you can still make a killing (so to speak) with the throttles especially for us who fly modern fighters. To be honest, if you can make a custom fighter stick in the different flavors (F22, F18, etc.) that will fit in the Cougar/Warthog stick base, that may be good as it'll work with Cougars, Warthogs, and FCC-/FSSB-modified units which I think really is your market for these items. I'm not sure how CH guys would react to this, but wasn't the original idea to create a whole new unit anyway?

Sounds good on all points. We expect many, many pictures

It's interesting that the throttle is more complicated than the stick. The stick handles to me look harder to design/cut (far more curves). In addition,the stick needs a dual axis gimble system, where as the Throttle needs only one or two in-line axis.

Oh, and it would be the CIA (or maybe just a SEAL team) that would be taking you on a 'date', not the FBI

Not sure on the 'killing' bluedeath will make. I think BD is in the right state of mind; do this as a hobby (maybe get some beer money out of it in the end). Remeber, in economics, the demand curve is defined as how many people are willing and able to buy an item at a given price point.

For example, I'm sure than many are willing to pay 1K plus for some great HOTAS controls. Not so many have that kind of disposable cash laying around...

And this "CH guy" would rather see a full-up stick,not just a handle for a base that is no longer manufactured (Cougar) or requires shelling our another $500 for a product that would be highly redundant (the Warthog) to BD's proposed HOTAS just to get the stick base. Plus, those with highly modded Cougars will probably pass on what's going to be a very expensive product, under the logic that they already own -and are presumably happy with- their current HOTAS solution.

Perhaps this: Offer both a base and a stick as separate items. THis allows current owners of TM sticks to buy a base for their handles or new sticks for their bases, and people such as myself to buy the whole package.

Might have exaggerated a bit, but I was just thinking that by selling a separate unit which will obviously be cheaper than the whole HOTAS will make it a more attractive option to people. Even if people are willing to pay 1K for a HOTAS, I guess even more are willing and will be able to pay less for a good-quality throttle unit.

Just to explain better the scope of my idea:

Due to the fact that i already have a demanding day job and a family I cannot pursue the dream to do something like this for a living, and BTW and i don't want to be sued by any big company for copyright infringement (i don't know who actually has the patents of the HOTASes we are using but is never a wise idea to have a pissed of military contractor against you) my idea is to keep thins as hobby based as possible.
Since i have CNC parts to be made anyway i thought: I cover R&D and manufacturing costs for the first unit, if someone should want one the cost is intended to be manufacturing + shipping only, the guys who is working on the project with me (and has the CNC machine) is the one who want to make money but his gain i already covered under the manufacturing costs since he owns the machine.

For sure there is a possibility that this will turn out to be just a fun exercise (I'm using it to learn CAD skills also) so I'm not asking for money but just information to address most of the shortcomings (or just to know of the current HOTASes around.

Since "CNC guy" has a friend who work with carbon fibers and resins also additional grips are interesting (if someone has info on the multiplexers used in the COUGAR and the warthog i can think about that but usually for me the BU0836a is the holy grail so i never dug too much on info the TM multiplexers schematics)

@ Aggressor blue in Italy almost all people have armored doors MY house is not exception) so if the CIA guy try to kick it down i will have to drive him to the nearest ER for a cast

I would've suggested that if I had a BU0836 or similar board in mind, not the PCB of a CH Products Fighterstick.

The thing is, I want Control Manager integration, and to do that, you obviously have to use the PCBs of actual CH hardware.

Of course, any F-16C grip molds should be set up internally to mount both dual microswitches and a pot (or, better yet, a Hall sensor) for the trigger, to keep tooling costs down. Just order what you want upon request.