Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.) http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.) http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
Right on the spot... This is a part of Nixon's greeting decoration in Beijin..
China only received 5 pieces of SA-75 Dvina "five van" (SA-2A) systems, during 1958-59. It was the oldest and least advanced version ever produced, much less capable than the SA-75M Dvina "three van/doghouse" (SA-2B/F) depicted in the sim.
Last edited by Hpasp; 09/09/1210:44 AM.
Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.) http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.) http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
I was wondering, how many vehicles are needed to transfer a "5 van" SA-75?
They should be:
5 for each van; 6 for each launcher; 1 for the spare parts, 6 TZM's maybe... What else?...
1,2 PA – fire control radar, RSNA-75 (Fan Song A) fire control radar. (two trailer one for the cabin, one for the antenna) 3. U – fire control cabin 4. I – indicator cabin 5. K3 – instrument cabin 6. K6 – power distribution cabin 7,8,9. Three K5 – diesel generator (100kW diesel generators) 10...15. Six PU launchers 16..21. Six TZM PR-11 missile transporter - loaders 22,23. P-12 target acquisition radar 24..26. ZSU-23-2 close air defense
... for kitchen, spares, guards, etc.
Last edited by Hpasp; 11/06/1209:19 PM.
Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.) http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
Read some historical literature You would know that Su-9 was unarmed transport flight which was accidentally in the vicinity of the incident and he was ordered to take crash course with U-2, but was withdrawn before SAM came to the game.
Actually no one knows exactly shot down a U2 rocket or aircraft, those nobody alive.
Who can accurately say shot down by a missile or aircraft.
Who's 100% knows.
Still there are some guys out, who were there and done that as FCO's... ... the situation in the SIM was designed after their memoirs.
Last edited by Hpasp; 11/14/1206:24 PM.
Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.) http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
Problem with that situation was the two MiG that was also shot by command of stupid ground control, and that several SAM batteries turned to be NOT battle ready. Some had malfunctioning missiles loaded on the launchers, some had only one worked, etc... ... this was the reason, that this accident was not celebrated in details.
Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.) http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
Hello I try to get into the sim with perhaps the most simple of the systems as far as I noticed. I tried to engage a B52 target drone which have both dm and cm jam equipment. I accuire the ep and beta as told in the manual and I assume it's range using the tables in "A" view and I use the bore sight control in order to move the range line into place but I can't "lock on" (press the right mouse button in the R area) and therefore there is not envelope or any sign for firing the missile.
I saw that in the Volhov you can set the height of the target manualy which solves the problem. but how do you do it in the Dvina?
Hello I try to get into the sim with perhaps the most simple of the systems as far as I noticed. I tried to engage a B52 target drone which have both dm and cm jam equipment. I accuire the ep and beta as told in the manual and I assume it's range using the tables in "A" view and I use the bore sight control in order to move the range line into place but I can't "lock on" (press the right mouse button in the R area) and therefore there is not envelope or any sign for firing the missile.
I saw that in the Volhov you can set the height of the target manualy which solves the problem. but how do you do it in the Dvina?
thanks RF
There is no way to lock-on in range on the jamming target... This is the idea of jamming.... Please, post your questions into the relevant topic. You should set radiofuse activation to "11 sec" ant use T/T mode, launching 3 miisiles salvo... Good luck...
i cant understand why dvina dont have ground clutter !
All "monkey" versions of USSR equipment has limited performance, compared to those, used in USSR and Warsaw pact... Also USSR were worried about know-how stealing from China...
I just started using SAMSIM a couple of days ago (using the SA-2F) and must say what a brilliant job Hpasp has done, I'm really enjoying it.
I have a questions about the SA-2F:
Using the Asuluk range for practice (I've had to substitute some characters in the names of some functions as there is no cyrillic formatting)
1) Set-up at the Asuluk range against a simulated FB-111 flying below 300m. The manuals says to use the 'K' guidance method with the proximity fuse switch in the down position (red lights on). I've noticed that with these setting all of my missiles fail to hit the target. If however I select the centre proximity fuse positions (no red or green lights illuminated), I can achieve great success with either 'K', 'YNP' or 'T/T'. According to the manual the ground clutter should confuse the fuse, but this never happens?
2) The 'BKN. CNHXP' button described on page 33, is supposed to synchronise the missile launchers with the azimuth and elevation of the radar. While this does cause the 'CNHXP. NY' lights to illuminate, suggesting the launchers are synchronised, the red indicators on the elevation and azimuth dials suggest otherwise?
3) Is there a way of zooming in on the Plotting Board display, as when there are multiple contacts in close proximity, it becomes impossible to read the target parameters?
4) On the I-64 panel (Q - button), what are the functions of the following switches, buttons & indicators?: a) 'PK' & KC' which are next to 'EP' (live fire mode). b) There is a switch that activates a red light labelled 'PNK'. c) To the right of the red 'PNK' light is a row of 5 switches. They are all inactivate with the exception of the third switch. d) On the radio fuse selection indicator 'PAE. NO AHA'.
5) On the I-62 panel (Y or Z buttons), the is a large black four position knob below the white 'Antenna / Dummy' switch. It looks like it cycles between launchers, but I'm not sure. What is it's function?
Thanks
Last edited by Wolfhound; 02/17/1304:56 PM.
*********I have quite a large collection of Flight, Weapon Systems, Tactical & Supplementary Aircraft Manuals for Jets, Helicopters & some Props, spanning the Vietnam era to present. If you're interested in trading Flight Manuals, mainly for modern military aircraft, send me a PM.*********
It would be easier to use screenshots to illustrate your questions..
1) Only Hpasp could explain programming, but those are correct settings... I killed it with 2 from 3...
2) Don't get your point, looks fine to me!
3) No, as in real life...
4) a - KS (Control station), a maintnance/calibration mode; RK - don't know.. b - yes there is it is for transmiting K1/K2 commands without real launch, just to frighten the enemy. The name is RPK not RNK. c - don't know d - it's "Rab. po ADA" which means "Working on spy baloons" - it sends K3 earlier, to create a bigger shrapnel cloud...
Thanks for the help piston79. I forgot to ask, what does the H<1 indicator under the breakable missile channels seal signify?
Below is a sequence of what occurs against the low flying FB-111. The last two images are from a different launch as I missed pressing 'PrtScn':
I launch at just under 30km. About 1 in 20 or 1 in 30 of these launches ever gets close enough to register a hit or kill. I'm almost 100% successful if I leave the radio fuse on (no red or green lights) with 'K' guidance or if I use 'T/T' guidance with radio fuse off (red light active).
*********I have quite a large collection of Flight, Weapon Systems, Tactical & Supplementary Aircraft Manuals for Jets, Helicopters & some Props, spanning the Vietnam era to present. If you're interested in trading Flight Manuals, mainly for modern military aircraft, send me a PM.*********
I believe that the problem here is the parameter of the target... The radiofuse is more effective than initiation by K3 command, but it shouldn't be possible for using on low altitude above ground as it should detonate right after it was armed ( a bit later than "Rab. po K3" mode...).
About <1 light - this is special mode against low altitude targets, not simulated... In reality the ground returns echo of the target signal and on epsilon (and sometimes beta screen, if target goes near steep hill, or mountain) you should see second target return (mirror target), or the target return should looks like the sign of the infinity, which could confuse the system. So <1 mode is about helping for that issue, but don't know how it works...
I think the business with the fuse may be a bug, because I have never know for it to have caused a detonation due to ground clutter. Also the 'K' guidance command should still lead the target in azimuth. In all the missile fly-outs with 'K' guidance, the SA-2 flies in a fashion so as to maintain a position at least 4 degree to the right of the radar beam azimuth. Then at end game it tries to swing to the left as show in images 6 & 7 I posted and misses nearly all the time.
The picture you posted of <1 reminds me of terrain bounce jamming. I can't read cyrillic however I feel that the illustrations and your description of a mirror image from the target return may form part of the underlying concept of terrain bounce jamming.
Last edited by Wolfhound; 02/18/1301:45 PM.
*********I have quite a large collection of Flight, Weapon Systems, Tactical & Supplementary Aircraft Manuals for Jets, Helicopters & some Props, spanning the Vietnam era to present. If you're interested in trading Flight Manuals, mainly for modern military aircraft, send me a PM.*********
The picture you posted of <1 reminds me of terrain bounce jamming. I can't read cyrillic however I feel that the illustrations and your description of a mirror image from the target return may form part of the underlying concept of terrain bounce jamming.
No, no jamming here, just the signal reflects twice (target-earth)...
I just managed to kill the simulated F-117 at the Asuluk range. It seems that the best technique is to fire missiles with T/T guidance and the radio fuse switched OFF. I think the target being stealthy makes it very difficult for the radio fuse to detect it. Also because it is not possible to track the F-117 until its quite close, very often its just out of parameters when missiles are launched. T/T guided missiles appear to handle lock-on after launch much better than the other two guidance methods. 'K' and 'YNP' tend to go off track and not guide correctly if launched under similar circumstances.
*********I have quite a large collection of Flight, Weapon Systems, Tactical & Supplementary Aircraft Manuals for Jets, Helicopters & some Props, spanning the Vietnam era to present. If you're interested in trading Flight Manuals, mainly for modern military aircraft, send me a PM.*********
I just managed to kill the simulated F-117 at the Asuluk range. It seems that the best technique is to fire missiles with T/T guidance and the radio fuse switched OFF. I think the target being stealthy makes it very difficult for the radio fuse to detect it.
In real life, T/T method was used. Be aware of the radar equation...
... at the close ranges of the radio proxy, Stealth does not count.
Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.) http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
00:05:23, Missile exploded on Channel-3 F-15C Eagle CAP number-1 hit by SAM. (miss distance: 208m) 00:05:24, F-117A Stealth bombed Batajnica Hangar, with LGB.
00:05:28, Missile exploded on Channel-2 F-15C Eagle CAP number-1 killed by SAM. (miss distance: 45m)
Really great find! Thanks for the upload! I've been interested in the Chinese SA-2, the HQ-2, but there are very few photos and little good information.
Maybe one day we'll get lucky and an ex-chinese SAM operator will find this forum and will give Hpasp enough information and photos to put the HQ-1 or HQ-2 into SAM Simulator.
Hi all, does anyone know how many G's could missiles used in SA-2B,C,D,E & F systems pull during turn? 3G? 5G? They were quite heavy beasts so I guess they weren't very good against maneuvering fighters? Thx!
in vietnam war and other scenarios i didnt see any coefficient of error of missiles as a realistic to switch object on samsim
i can launch one missile of target and before it ! i am pretty sure ke target will destroy by my only missile that launched by me !
would u explain to me about this realistic object ? some where you wrote with launching 3 dvina missiles you have 96% to hunt the target but with one missile....our 96% have to Division to 3 = 32% !!!!
so how with 32% we can hunt all of targets in vietnam and others like libya and allied forces scenarios with one launch one kill ?
would u explain to me about this realistic object ? some where you wrote with launching 3 dvina missiles you have 96% to hunt the target but with one missile....our 96% have to Division to 3 = 32% !!!!
Probability calculation is a bit more complicated than simple division
But when assesing of missile performance it is even more complicated. We have flying objects with many degrees of freedom, they are doing manoeuveres and so on. It is not so easy.
And I am pretty sure that the probability of target destruction is found out empirically - from experiments and statistical analysis of measured data. All those sigmas, correlations, variations and so on.
OT, I quickly looked at wikipedia and there is central limit theorem, this I had at exam of mathematics 4, which was focused on probability and functions of complex numbers. And I could not remember it and make a mathematical proof of it
Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.) http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
"Since the Shrike's introduction, the percentage of SAMs fired with radar guidance has been greatly reduced. The far greater number are fired in salvo and are unguided because the ground sites cannot afford to stay on the air. This has greatly reduced their effectiveness and has been a big boost to the morale of the strike pilots. It should surprise no one that an increase in SAM firings and an increase in Shrike firings occur at the same time. Most Shrike launches are the result of SAM activity and launch warnings."
I guess this is the SAM sites switching on the missile command transmitter, without launching a missile?
Hi, guys. I have a question about S-75M Dvina. Situation: I find a target, get it tracked in "PC" mode, then I switch transmitter off on block I-66 (However the load is switched to Antenna, not dummy) - target diseapers from I-32 beta-epsilon monitors (target is not jamming), but the system is still tracking it! Indicators on the I-88 block still show changing parameters of the target! I can even launch rocket and score a successful kill! How does the system track target without emmitting signal?
I think it's supposed to represent your crew maintaining a constant rate of rotation, elevation and range change, predicting where the target will be. Though I agree it sometimes seems a little too accurate.
I think it's supposed to represent your crew maintaining a constant rate of rotation, elevation and range change, predicting where the target will be. Though I agree it sometimes seems a little too accurate.
But, I could be wrong.
Basically you're right... Operators just control the rotation speed of the antenna in RS, decrease or increase the antenna rotation speed. Please, do a bug check - make an scenario in Hungary with zig-zaging target, and take it in RS, than check if it does follow the target again without transmission.... If so - please, report in the Bugs topic... You could do the check with other systems also....
Thank you for answers. Tested. You are right - the system does not follow the target when it changes its course. It seems we have a really good tracking operator
Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.) http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.) http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
Nonetheless, it would certainly be interesting to hear what happened to the first „MiG-killer" of the day, namely Lt. Court Dosé- which was punished by escorting A-7s - on the same afternoon. At 3:15 PM Dosé and Hawkins escorted a pair of Iron Hand a-7s north of Hon Gai, when Dosé’s RWR showed signs of a SAM launch from the West. Dosé informed the A-7 pilot, but the later - only 300 meters away - said his equipment showed no such signals. As luck would have it, the late afternoon sun sat low in the sky to the west, and its rays were diffused by a bank of haze. Suddenly, Dosé saw two SAMs, „busting out of the haze in our nine o’clock, doing about Mach 3." He rolled the Phantom on its back and pulled into a dive trying to outmanoeuvre the missiles, but the robot weapons corrected to a new collision course. Dosé rolled out and pulled into a maximum G climb, while missiles readjusted their trajectories and continued after the fighter. Now, the SA-2s were too close for any further evasive manoeuvring and closing fast: „One missile came past the nose, the other went over my canopy. It looked like a killer shot. Those missiles had 280-ound warheads, they had us cold. They were so close I could see the control surfaces moving. I gritted my teeth and waited for the explosion. I was looking at ‘em, tensed up, ready to die. And they just continued on past, they didn’t get off!"
can the enemy jam the Missile Antenna (for SPK), is it omnidirectionnal antenna? Why on earth would you jam a transmitting only system???
They do this in Vietnam with SA-75 missiles....
But that was jamming of the wide-band antenna missile beacon channel. Its described in detail in page 6 of the SA-2E Advanced manual by Vintorez.
Last edited by Hpasp; 05/20/1406:10 AM.
Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.) http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
But that was jamming of the wide-band antenna missile beacon channel. Its described in detail in page 6 of the SA-2E Advanced manual by Vintorez.
They attempt jamming of UPLINK and DOWNLINK transmitions...
As far as I know, generally they jammed the missile Beacon signal (Downlink). I know only that the A-12/SR-71 was trying to inject false missile guidance commands (Uplink), but it was a futile attempt.
Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.) http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
As far as I know, generally they jammed the missile Beacon signal (Downlink). I know only that the A-12/SR-71 was trying to inject false missile guidance commands (Uplink), but it was a futile attempt.
True... About SR-71 - it has (since 1972 I think) a possibility to "interrogate" SA-2 missiles and thus find which launch is fake or real.
As far as I know, generally they jammed the missile Beacon signal (Downlink). I know only that the A-12/SR-71 was trying to inject false missile guidance commands (Uplink), but it was a futile attempt.
True... About SR-71 - it has (since 1972 I think) a possibility to "interrogate" SA-2 missiles and thus find which launch is fake or real.
There were a FOIA CIA document describing the measures taken against the Dvina. One system was recording, and with delay, retransmitting missile guidance command signals.
I shall dig to find it... ... got it BLUE DOG:
Last edited by Hpasp; 05/21/1404:59 PM.
Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.) http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.) http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
This is for A-12.... SR-71 got different (and more capable system). Part of it (Special Elint Beacon Receiver - SEBER), known as System G was introduced in 1972...
Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.) http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.) http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
... what is your educated guess? What is this Dvina FCO switching on?
Last edited by Hpasp; 08/29/1407:06 PM.
Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.) http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
... come on guys, you know more about Soviet SAM systems, than a real FCO*! Pull out your educated guesses!
*who only knew his system, nothing else
Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.) http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
Meanwhile, there is a clickable switch, right over the missile channel switches, with really bad visible label (something about low altitudes - "MB") - what it suppose to do?
It looks so, because at first he positioned SNR in epsilon and beta planes and the he switched it. Only it is a bit off hand (I know Volkhov, but Dvina's location as in sim is much more ergonomic for this switch)....
Guys, have you noticed that PEREDATCHIK light is not lit on his panel? Maybe only because of demonstration for the movie they did not enabled the high voltage. But.... What if it is done with this mysterious switch? I have to watch the movie once again....
------------- Edit: No, the light will not turn on....
Last edited by Alien_MasterMynd; 09/01/1408:35 AM.
By the way, what are those unclickable switches in the SIM labeled P, I, K, L for? They are located left and right of the mysterious clickable ....MB button.
By the way, what are those unclickable switches in the SIM labeled P, I, K, L for? They are located left and right of the mysterious clickable ....MB button.
P,I,K,L are name of the Dvina cabins. (manual page 7) VKL BLOKIR MV is not simulated. (similarly to H<1)
Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.) http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
Meanwhile, there is a clickable switch, right over the missile channel switches, with really bad visible label (something about low altitudes - "MB") - what it suppose to do?
Yes it was the ANT-EKV switch, and it was moved to the I-62M pult, for ergonomic reasons learned during the Vietnam War.
Question: why was this switch moved at the Dvina, and why stayed at its unergonomic place with the Volhov?
Last edited by Hpasp; 09/02/1405:12 PM.
Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.) http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
At Dvina it was moved because of Vietnam experience I think. /edit: you wrote it already :-)
Why it was moved at Volkhov I do not know. Maybe lack of space, but there is some on the launch panel.
By the way, why PUSK and VOZVRAT button position was swapped at Dvina and Volkhov? Because the PUSK buttons are at better position for pushing than if they were at the lower row and you can accidentally flip the switched on the panel beneath them?
Last edited by Alien_MasterMynd; 09/02/1405:37 PM.
Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.) http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
During this period, from Moscow came absolutely absurd recommendation to Fight "Shrike", by launching our missiles. I remember how some of the experienced gunners very accurately said that the order to shoot at the "Shrike" missile is like forcing gunners to shoot the bombs, not the aircraft. One time, I still tried to track the "Shrike" after the start, but I saw on the screen only the initial time of his separation from the aircraft. A moment later, "Shrike" disappeared because it's reflecting surface is very small and, continuing his search, we have created the ideal conditions for its homing against our SNR. There we, as always, applying the correct, tested method: turn the antenna on azimuth plane and turn off the high voltage. After 10-15 seconds heard a sharp "clap" - overseas "guest" exploded a mile from us, flopping down into the jungle. So we did every time when the aircraft maneuvered in a particular manner, we see splash that marks the launch on the screen or on the report of the commander of the starting battery (who has been equipped with optical device, determined start "Shrike". Twice we were under fire from 2 "Shrike"-s, but they tried in vain - we are not easy prey. Our experience in defeating the "Shrike" we tried to transfer to the Vietnamese comrades, but unfortunately, after our departure, they do not always strictly follow our, battle-tested recommendations. As a result, in November 1967, our 41st Division received the "Shrike" in the antenna cab "P". Operators (two men) were seriously injured. But our crews, observing elementary but effective measures to combat the anti-radar missiles had virtually no losses from them. The strange thing is that those absurd recommendation (tracking and shooting the "Shrike" I met at the HQ anti-aircraft missile battalions after returning from Vietnam. You can only imagine what would have led to their execution in a combat situation. Soon received a new order of command - during the combat readiness our specialist must leave the position. This meant that the Vietnamese payment received full "good" for independent combat work. We also had to come in August in Hanoi for traveling home.
There we, as always, applying the correct, tested method: turn the antenna on azimuth plane and turn off the high voltage.
Exactly the same method was taught for Hungarian Volhov FCOs...
Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.) http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
Tough to hear the other side of the battle... ... if you play with SAMSIM, you will hear the carpet bombing from the receiving side.
Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.) http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
April 25, 1967, Eagle Six is Ltjg Alan R. Crebo in an A-4C Skyhawk, Navy BUNO 151102.
“ We all stare at his Skyhawk in awe and wonder as we all join on him. Crebo’s A4 is a sight to behold. He has no rudder. Fully half of the vertical stabilizer is gone. Football and basketball sized holes allow us to see right through the tail pipe in several places. Someone points out that viewed from dead astern, the horizontal stabilizer is twisted about three degrees out of alignment with the trailing edge of the wing. Every access panel in the fuselage has been popped open from the force of the concussion. He is flying with the hydraulic boost package disconnected and has very limited maneuverability, so we all fly on him. Someone in the flight has a hand held 35mm camera and takes multiple shots of the incredible battle damage. Al Crebo was tail end Charlie in the bomb stack.
He reached the top of the pop up and hung at about two hundred twenty knots waiting for sufficient separation from Eagle Five before rolling in. He never saw the SA-2 which delivered a direct hit on his airplane. The force of the hit and explosion rolled Al on his back. He recovered with the nose pointed at the target, so he completed his run.
As he began his pull out, the badly wounded Skyhawk made an uncommanded roll inverted over the target. It was at this point when he made the “Eagle Six hit and losing control” call over the radio. Al reached under the glare shield and yanked the flight control boost disconnect handle, and flew the little A4 upright on manual flight controls. Now, NATOPS states that before disconnecting the hydraulic flight controls, one should be dirty, below two hundred knots, and lined up with the landing runway. The A4-C even had an extendable stick to give the pilot more leverage when flying on cables and pulleys with no power steering. Al was doing about 450 knots when he disconnected and rolled upright. He said he didn’t remember the airplane being hard to fly at all!
Approaching the “Bonnie Dick”, Al decided to see if he could control the airplane well enough to attempt a landing. He extended the landing gear and the nose gear and tail hook came down, but the main mounts remained jammed in the wing due to buckled wing plates. He tried for ten thousand feet to eject, but along side the plane guard D.D. at sixty five hundred feet, the gallant Skyhawk flamed out and gave up the ghost. Al ejected safely and was promptly picked up by the plane guard helo. CDR. The little Skyhawks had got their drivers home.”
Anyone have measurements of the RSNA-75M radar... I know dimensions of the wheels and tires, size of the trailer it's on... the dimensions of the antennae's ect isn't normally the sort of statistics one asks concerning engagement radars... But I'd like to build a 1:1 facsimile of one in some voxel games...
Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.) http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
The explosion of an SA-2 Surface to Air Missile photographed by a Model 147 drone. The SA-2 had a profound impact on post-war Black aircraft development: it put the U2 overflights at risk, which led to the development of the A-12 Oxcart and D-21 Tagboard. U.S. Air Force
The explosion of an SA-2 Surface to Air Missile photographed by a Model 147 drone. The SA-2 had a profound impact on post-war Black aircraft development: it put the U2 overflights at risk, which led to the development of the A-12 Oxcart and D-21 Tagboard. U.S. Air Force
The explosion of an SA-2 Surface to Air Missile photographed by a Model 147 drone. The SA-2 had a profound impact on post-war Black aircraft development: it put the U2 overflights at risk, which led to the development of the A-12 Oxcart and D-21 Tagboard. U.S. Air Force
[quote=piston79][quote=piston79][b]The explosion of an SA-2 Surface to Air Missile photographed by a Model 147 drone. The SA-2 had a profound impact on post-war Black aircraft Nice, do you have some more?
The explosion of an SA-2 Surface to Air Missile photographed by a Model 147 drone. The SA-2 had a profound impact on post-war Black aircraft development: it put the U2 overflights at risk, which led to the development of the A-12 Oxcart and D-21 Tagboard. U.S. Air Force
your first video contain a very accurate depiction of a modulated noise jamming effects on SA-2, from 20:30, with a nice zoom-in at 20:50.
This is how it's explained in SAM operators training manuals ('statut boevovo primeneniya'):
A noise jamming creates a jamming strobe. But a periodic amplitude modulation to this noise (a sine wave) that is just slightly miss-matched (within 1-3Hz) from a scan frequency of Fan-Song (16Hz), creates the effect of jamming strobe (or its centre of brighteness, more precisely) moving around sideways, as if rotating around some invisible vertical axis on the scope.
This makes it difficult for an operator to keep a steady track on the centre of a jamming strobe and reduces the effectiveness of a manual tracking.
According to my sources, this form of jamming (noise jamming modulated at a scan frequency), especially used from several aircraft flying in a pod formation, was considered the most effective form of jamming against SA-2 by russian SAM engineers.
Sadly, there is no english or russian sub to the videos... there are some other interesting information!
your first video contain a very accurate depiction of a modulated noise jamming effects on SA-2, from 20:30, with a nice zoom-in at 20:50.
This is how it's explained in SAM operators training manuals ('statut boevovo primeneniya'):
A noise jamming creates a jamming strobe. But a periodic amplitude modulation to this noise (a sine wave) that is just slightly miss-matched (within 1-3Hz) from a scan frequency of Fan-Song (16Hz), creates the effect of jamming strobe (or its centre of brighteness, more precisely) moving around sideways, as if rotating around some invisible vertical axis on the scope.
This makes it difficult for an operator to keep a steady track on the centre of a jamming strobe and reduces the effectiveness of a manual tracking.
According to my sources, this form of jamming (noise jamming modulated at a scan frequency), especially used from several aircraft flying in a pod formation, was considered the most effective form of jamming against SA-2 by russian SAM engineers.
Sadly, there is no english or russian sub to the videos... there are some other interesting information!
Indeed! This video is pretty good, I'm glad I found it!
@Jonas85, did you find a way operators could deal with this modulated jamming...?
Dvina that Vietnamese had at that time did not have any technical fixes to counter modulated noise jamming (or other types of jamming) effectively.
For SAM operators, the only instruction was to turn off ARU/VARU and tune RRU knob so that the jamming strobe is as narrow as possible. But this couldn't have helped much against B-52. As Vietnamese had not much help on the hardware fixes from Russians, their only hope was to compensate in tactics - echelon the SAM batteries in such a way that at least one battery will get a good angle where jamming is not so strong. This is how most of B-52's were shot down - they got a firing solution when B-52 bomb bay doors were open (increases RCS) or during a post-target turn.
I can only speculate, but it would be very resonable to guess, that in Volkhov (> mod3, 1972 and later), GShV mode should eliminate or weaken the modulation effect (shooting rules recommend GShV mode on in jamming conditions), as long as jamming does not overload the compensation channel.
Volkhov mod3 and also later mods of Dvina (SA-75MK) had a fix called IARU (Impulse Automatic Gain Control) to counter strong noise jamming (like from B-52). It reduces the receiver gain according to ARU voltage level (which depends to the jamming intensity) on-receive during the time period that corresponds to the range above the horizontal distance marker. Supposedly, this extends the dynamic range by 25dB and rises saturation threshold. IARU effectively narrows the jamming strobe above the horizontal range mark on beta/epsilon indicators, so operators can track in angles more precisely in manual mode, as illustrated below. Range information is fed from RD-75 Amazonka (if available) or from I-87V/TT instrument. IARU mode is not compatible with GShV.
Nice explanation of different guidance modes (TT/K/Half-lead), with accompanying equations and drawings of trajectories, mixed with documentical cadres:
A mash-up of cadres from movie "Kliuchi ot Neba" (Keys from the Sky): missiles 'dancing' to the classical music, and radar scope views during the missile guidance: