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#3616482 - 07/30/12 09:54 AM Re: How Tactical do you fly? [Re: EinsteinEP]
Weaponz248 Offline
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I went with option 2. Somewhat Tactical. I do not fly the A-10 in R/L so I can't go full tactical as there is stuff I dont know about.
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#3616485 - 07/30/12 09:56 AM Re: How Tactical do you fly? [Re: FearlessFrog]
GrayGhost Offline
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Registered: 12/17/03
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No, F-15C's in FC2 (And soon FC3 I hope).

To keep it short and blunt: It doesn't matter how many switch you can/can't flick in your pit, or if your plane does funny things with the rudder. Your equipment may dictate which tactics you should use and which you should avoid, but there's nothing out there but vague notions as to what these tactics actually are.

And that's one thing when you're playing solo: You can do whatever you want, and what works for you ... but once it comes to teamwork, that's when you get into real tactics, mutual support, etc. If you five bandits spread out in front of you from 11 to 1 at 40nm, and you're a two ship, what do you do? (... shoot the hostage! ) That's a bit of an extreme example, but it -can- happen.

So you have to tailor tactics to the mission, and sometimes these tactics may require you to accept losses (for example, are you going to play it safe and skate when you're the wall between a bunch of bandits and yoru HVAA? You better have someone taking over the fight!)

Can your wingmen reliably prosecute their targets and be supporting you/each other after the first shots and evasions take place? Do people know how to drag a bandit properly?

Etc, etc.

This sort of thing takes a lot of training, and that training starts from the beginning, meaning rote memorization of facts, aerobatic flying, etc (we really don't want someone worrying about how to fly his plane while dodging missiles, returning fire, and building an SA picture. It gets that bad, yes).

Edit: I just realized this is the A-10C forum, but it doesn't matter - all of this stuff transfers between aircraft ... specific tactics/execution may change, but the mindset, training, etc, are essentially the same smile


Originally Posted By: FearlessFrog
Canadian A10's GrayGhost? smile

Yeah, somewhat for me. The procedures are kinda hard work to learn and practise, but nothing really like the proper stuff. Coming back to DCS after a while is cool - I remembered about 20% of it, but having to read quite a lot more to get back up to speed.


Edited by GrayGhost (07/30/12 10:31 AM)
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#3616634 - 07/30/12 01:38 PM Re: How Tactical do you fly? [Re: EinsteinEP]
letterboy1 Offline
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One day soon they will have labels in real life combat and I will finally be considered ultra-tactical!
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#3616635 - 07/30/12 01:40 PM Re: How Tactical do you fly? [Re: EinsteinEP]
GrayGhost Offline
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They already do, and they'll still steam-roll your ultra-tactical self smile
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#3616835 - 07/30/12 05:22 PM Re: How Tactical do you fly? [Re: EinsteinEP]
OlafM Online   content
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"Labels" for the real A-10C:
http://warthognews.blogspot.de/2012/07/47th-fs-debuts-new-technology-at-rimpac.html

What does "tactical" mean precisely, anyway? If it's just about following (standard) procedures, that would be a bit lame. For me, "tactical" means to know and consider the current situation and the available resources/capabilities, then choose and apply the most effective method to fulfil the mission.

I'd say procedures are then implemented to achieve this effectiveness, with the main benefit being easier communication between pilots and easier anticipation of other pilots actions.

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#3616838 - 07/30/12 05:26 PM Re: How Tactical do you fly? [Re: EinsteinEP]
GrayGhost Offline
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Tactical implies applying certain procedures as part of your tactics. No nilly-willy stuff, pre-plan, everyone know what they're doing and when they're doing it. Alternate actions are available depending on the situation.

Tactics can be very easy to pretty hard and fluid - I think that's a pretty fair question you're asking though.
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#3616924 - 07/30/12 07:54 PM Re: How Tactical do you fly? [Re: EinsteinEP]
eno75 Offline
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Registered: 01/30/12
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I enjoy the cooperative aspect of the game and the opportunity to help others enjoy it as well. Tactical is a pretty subjective word and I think most will agree that employing tactics could be as simple as "I'm going to draw their fire and you hit them." whether that's how they would do it in rl doesn't concern me as much as the fact that we all read and practice our part of the picture so that we can be a bigger contributor to the success of the mission. When I can swoop in and smash a threat that is harassing one of my flight companions- and help make his game experience a bit more emersive... Much of the time I've invested in learning how was justified. Tactical? Maybe not... But suffice to say I've not yet flown a single player mission.

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#3617100 - 07/31/12 01:56 AM Re: How Tactical do you fly? [Re: OlafM]
zzzspace Offline
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Originally Posted By: OlafM
"Labels" for the real A-10C:
http://warthognews.blogspot.de/2012/07/47th-fs-debuts-new-technology-at-rimpac.html

What does "tactical" mean precisely, anyway? If it's just about following (standard) procedures, that would be a bit lame. For me, "tactical" means to know and consider the current situation and the available resources/capabilities, then choose and apply the most effective method to fulfil the mission.

I'd say procedures are then implemented to achieve this effectiveness, with the main benefit being easier communication between pilots and easier anticipation of other pilots actions.


That's basically how I see it.

Tactics is an evaluation of your options and the implications of various possible choices to thus both maximise effective hitting capacity, and also your survival potential. Which will determine how you go about meeting the mission aim.

That is what I mean by 'tactics', and why the sim has to be able to accomodate that whole process acceptably.

Procedures and checks are lower-order step-wise practical processes for enabling those tactical choices that you made in planning, and then must do in flight.

As GreyGhost said, you need wingmen that can follow planning and orders, and actually get those done, in a timely way ... while the 'lead' must ... lead the way ... otherwise they're not a lead of anything.
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#3617139 - 07/31/12 05:17 AM Re: How Tactical do you fly? [Re: EinsteinEP]
JonnyD Offline
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Registered: 09/06/07
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Loc: The Fens, UK
Hmm, I voted the third option - but what I read in the poll and what I'm reading comments about seem to be two completely different things to me.

When you ask about "tactical flying" that to me means ingress and attacking and egressing, not following all flights procedures from flicking the battery switch to waiting for the engine to completely stop spinning., which I would call procedural flying. As people seem to be thinking (didn't read them all first rolleyes )

That's the basis on which I answered. wink
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#3617185 - 07/31/12 07:03 AM Re: How Tactical do you fly? [Re: EinsteinEP]
letterboy1 Offline
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I must admit I didn't read the question carefully enough and assumed it was your basic run-of-the-mill "what percentage realism settings do you use" kind of question. To be honest, I have never read any official SOP concerning basic attack helicopter tactics, never mind those specific to the Ka-50.
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