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#3615970 - 07/29/12 01:07 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: GrayGhost]
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Member
Registered: 01/12/12
Posts: 171
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Not that I want to prolong the OT a lot ... the latter part is the big difference. In addition, I don't think there was quite as much direct 2nd/3rd party involvement in the F-104 design and requirements as there is in the F-35. Yes, our discussion is a blatant OT here. I hope we ain't gonna be punished for that, although I must admit that the discussion is quite interesting and i would like to continue. Shall we continue by using private messages or go to some other thread?
Edited by Lonewolf357 (07/29/12 01:10 PM)
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#3616038 - 07/29/12 03:39 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
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Senior Member
Registered: 12/17/03
Posts: 4373
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I'm sure the peeps found it entertaining  PM's are fine 
_________________________
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44th VFW
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#3616558 - 07/30/12 11:48 AM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: farokh]
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Member
Registered: 09/02/11
Posts: 890
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guys what is this launcher???? it's not looks like sm-106 5p73 launcher  Pick some War of Atrition scenario with NEVA and check the launchers...
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#3616574 - 07/30/12 12:14 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: farokh]
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Member
Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 1735
Loc: Hungary, Europe
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guys what is this launcher???? it's not looks like sm-106 5p73 launcher It is the original (SM-78 5P71) 2 missile launcher of the S-125 Neva (SA-3A) system. It was exported until 1973, into Poland, Czechoslovakia, Egypt, Syria, Vietnam and Iraq.   In June 1961, Dmitriy Fedorovich Ustinov proposed that Grushin place not two, but four missiles on a launcher.
Petr Dmitriyevich thought a moment and said: ’The launcher won’t stand that.’
Ustinov: ’Well, humor me. Do it.’
Thus began and later ended successfully the development of the four-missile launcher.The S-125M Neva (SA-3B) system born (depicted in the sim), with the SM-106 5P73 4 missile launcher.  (Thanks to Ustinov)  PS: As you are all considered as independent SAM experts, I would really be interested in your opinion on the topic of the "Deputy Premier of the Soviet Union" overruling the "Chief SAM Engineer" view. Was Ustinov right requesting 16 missiles for the Neva (SA-3) system, or 8 V-601 missiles is enough?
Edited by Hpasp (07/30/12 02:30 PM)
_________________________
Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
While Fighter Pilots made movies, SAM Officers made History.
(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
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#3616665 - 07/30/12 02:45 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Lonewolf357]
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Member
Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 1735
Loc: Hungary, Europe
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To be honest, I never saw any manuals that would mention the RVV-AE and its performance figures (although they are available from advertisement by its manufacturer, and I guess that's what Kopp uses). Only for R-27 and R-73 some data is actually available due to their obsolescence and worldwide availability.
Dear Grayghost & Lonewolf I'm really happy that you continue your off-topic discussion in private. As I'm not an AA expert just a poor SAM guy, I add these pictures to your discussion without any comment...   
Edited by Hpasp (07/30/12 02:46 PM)
_________________________
Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
While Fighter Pilots made movies, SAM Officers made History.
(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
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#3616708 - 07/30/12 03:32 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
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Member
Registered: 09/02/11
Posts: 890
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Hi, guys... Recently i've started to using SA-4 (still on training only), and just today use it in Linebacker-II scenario (against my favorite "duck" - SR-71). Something that I can't understand happens, hope somebody (perhaps Hpasp or Vintorez) could help....: When pick up the target on aquisition radar, my "Path hand" goes toward the targetin 20 km mode. I changed to a 110 km mode, but the target was behind 110 km, so nothing on my screen... I was waiting peacefully target to appears, but sudently "Path Hand" starts spinning around like mad!  ... Why this happens??? What I am not doing or doing wrong?
Edited by piston79 (07/30/12 03:32 PM)
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#3616732 - 07/30/12 03:54 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: piston79]
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Member
Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 1735
Loc: Hungary, Europe
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Hi, guys... Recently i've started to using SA-4 (still on training only), and just today use it in Linebacker-II scenario (against my favorite "duck" - SR-71). Something that I can't understand happens, hope somebody (perhaps Hpasp or Vintorez) could help....: When pick up the target on aquisition radar, my "Path hand" goes toward the targetin 20 km mode. I changed to a 110 km mode, but the target was behind 110 km, so nothing on my screen... I was waiting peacefully target to appears, but sudently "Path Hand" starts spinning around like mad! ... Why this happens??? What I am not doing or doing wrong? I think, that we are a bit over comfortable with the Raspeltin designs (SA-2/3/5) having a 360 degree azimuth track capability. Several SAM systems has limited azimuth. (SA-4, SA-12, Patriot, etc ...) When you lock on to your target, the system tries to solve the antenna lock situation by counter rotating. Please always monitor this instrument during target tracking...  ... Soviet MiG-29's used to do upward spiral flight above the Hungarian 1S32M2 SNR (Pat Hand) Mobile Fire Control Radar, during exercises to achieve antenna break. You could actually ruin your SNR by over-rotating it in azimuth, and tearing its connection cables.
Edited by Hpasp (07/30/12 04:06 PM)
_________________________
Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
While Fighter Pilots made movies, SAM Officers made History.
(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
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#3616752 - 07/30/12 04:06 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
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Senior Member
Registered: 12/17/03
Posts: 4373
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Thank you Hpasp; these diagrams as you know show absolute max performance envelope for the weapons listed, unfortunately there is no context (launcher and target speed, maneuver, etc) but it does correspond to some of what we do know What is the source?
_________________________
--
44th VFW
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#3616789 - 07/30/12 04:34 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
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Member
Registered: 09/02/11
Posts: 890
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I think, that we are a bit over comfortable with the Raspeltin designs (SA-2/3/5) having a 360 degree azimuth track capability.
Several SAM systems has limited azimuth. (SA-4, SA-12, Patriot, etc ...)
Problem solved! Thank you!
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#3616790 - 07/30/12 04:34 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: GrayGhost]
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Member
Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 1735
Loc: Hungary, Europe
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Thank you Hpasp; these diagrams as you know show absolute max performance envelope for the weapons listed, unfortunately there is no context (launcher and target speed, maneuver, etc) but it does correspond to some of what we do know What is the source? These kind of Soviet generic charts used depict the most ideal situation... ... straight flying, non jamming, incoming target with maximum expected speed. (h0=Mach1, h9km=Mach2, h18km=Mach3)
Edited by Hpasp (07/30/12 04:34 PM)
_________________________
Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
While Fighter Pilots made movies, SAM Officers made History.
(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
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