During the construction of the cockpit, we wanted to ensure the accuracy of the gauge and structure placement that we went of actual aircraft drawings and photographs. Here is a small video that will show the placement and line up of the drawings and the very 3D cockpit in the upcoming RAZBAM Harrier.
Hi Prowler, great pics, but I have a question I haven't seen really answered if you're willing to divulge any info on your projects. Are any of them going to be DCS titles where they're comparably complex to the A-10C or are they more aircraft for DCS world that just use the SFM like the LOMAC aircraft? Really happy you're doing the harrier either way, it'll be fun
This is how it currently looks..
As complex as current available info allows us to do it, but if your concern is if weīll go after DCS A-10 level, the answer is yes
Best regards
Prowler
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I hope adapting existing FSX projects to DCS gets easier as Razbam gains experience so that many if not all their existing products can ultimately end up being available in DCS. I can't wait
In fact..if we try to create a similarity between FSX and DCS, being current version FSX only, itīs a fine equivalent of DCS..in FSX, as it is, itīs extremely complex and accurate, all systems are being replicated as per NATOPS info and beyond (working ordnance in FSX? yeah..thatīs us since 2007) now, if you go and take the fact that FSX was not made for many of the stuff in this model (A/G-A/A radar, nav systems, RWR, weapons, VTOL) can you imagine what we can do in a sim where all this stuff is part of the engine? like i said, we go beyond FSX capabilities when we create military stuff in a non military sim.Sure, some will say that they donīt like our stuff, but we have been around almost 10 yrs now, check the release date of our old stuff, we broke the mold in 2007, in 2010 we changed completely the way you can use an add on in FSX (i wont get into discussions about other developerīs creations, so youīre wasting your time here) from the A-7 volumes on, we twisted, bended and squeezed FSX engine, so it can do things it was not supposed to, DCS in the other hand, is a military sim, while weīll need time to adapt our knowledge into this new frontier we are already in this game of replicating military systems..in a military simulator!.Bottom line, weīll do this bird as per specs in DCS, just as we are doing it in FSX..where none of this stuff itīs even documented.. Best regards Prowler
Haha yea let's not lose sight of where the Harrier came from. It's a real pity that the UK government have mothballed all the Harriers/Carriers; totally knackers our presence abroad both for good and sorting out the bad guys.
Still at least we have two carriers being built... *cough*
Originally Posted By: jdbecks
Originally Posted By: FearlessFrog
Instant buy for me.
and for me as soon as I get a raf skin you know.... the proper harrier
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Ebullient joy, tinged with nervous terror of the unknown. What I'm asking is....are RAZBAM any good? I know they do stuff for FSX, but I don't play FSX and have no idea how good they are with FM's. Any opinions out there? I'd imagine an accurate Harrier FM would be a formidable challenge for the code monkeys....and sadly 'Jet Thunder' appears to be dead?
The modelling of course speaks for itself even at this stage, looking absolutely beautiful, but all that glitters is not necessarily gold. I understand that 3rd parties have access to the DCS 'standard flight model' but not advanced, this is what worries me a little, because the onus is on RAZBAM and others to come up with something as good (or hopefully even better!). They are very much an unknown quantity to me....hence the worry, which may or may not be justified. Ideally, I was hoping DCS themselves would make a Harrier, but I suppose this is way better than what we have now (that would nothing lol) and will be watching this closely.
Looking forward to the VEAO stuff too, as much as I love the US planes I'm glad that Euros and Brits are being looked after (BAE Hawk looks great.....I watched the Red Arrows in Sunderland last Sunday gone too, which has me in the mood)
Quote:
and for me as soon as I get a raf skin, you know.... the proper harrier
Amen Brother Becks, go tell it on the mountain! Those Bloody Yanks, pinching our Harriers and....*grumble...mutter*
EDIT: Just found out they are apparently making a GR9 for DCS as well. Hallelujah! Carry on, all is well.
Edited by Biggles07 (07/26/1203:45 PM)
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Seems every time i log onto this forum i come across another thread about another company creating another plane for DCS. Things are looking good for DCS in the future.
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Woew, this would be cool...Helos-hybrid! Go vertical take-off. I've, just, barely learned A-10C and already new planes are popping up. I'm so screwed...lol
No comparison. As Nate pointed out, the FM in DCS is whatever the developer wants to make it. I think you can even plug in external FM engines if you want to, like for example JBSim, but that's IIRC/AFAIK.
Originally Posted By: Ratherbegliding
I wonder how the flight models will compare between FSX and DCS.
Registered: 08/04/07
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Loc: London, England
Looks really good. Shame the DCS engine (or the FSX one for that matter) doesn't support tessellation as the canopy bow sure could use a bit of smoothing out.
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Originally Posted By: Ratherbegliding
Mmmmm. . .. . .
I wonder how the flight models will compare between FSX and DCS.
IIRC FSX struggles with VTOL performance.
Pics look great though.
RBG
Any problems that FSX might have with VTOL performance should not be a problem in the DCS world (as us virtual Ka-50 fliers might attest to), so it will be up to the developers of the Harrier to take advantage of the AFM properly.
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Originally Posted By: Tigerwulf
Wow!! I NEED to get this!
I agree, it will be interesting to see how the vertical flight physics compare to the fsx version...
Edited by Python (09/06/1209:40 AM)
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I've had the FSX version for a few weeks now, and i have to say, i hope the vertical flight characteristics are better than the FSX version. Someone mentioned that vertical flight was a limitation of FSX, well that seems to be true here. Even when, from a dead stop on the runway, i push the nozzles all the way back (120 degrees i believe?), the aircraft rolla forward and picks up speed when power is applied, and i can find no way to take off vertically, let alone hover.
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Chris, I haven't tried the Razbam Harrier, but have had a go of the (Wilco) FSX Harrier GR.3 and that hovers and flys backwards pretty well. Unlike the AV8B you have to make sure the fuel load is light or you wont be doing any VTOL. I think it uses 'guages' to achieve this as the standard FSX flight model doesn't do VTOL flight very well. Happy to be corrected on this.
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That looks amazing!!
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This is the airplane that is going to get me into the DCS world. I want it, and I don't want to wait for it. I'm going to hold my breadth 'til you give it to me.
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Even more annoying because Iris is already making an F-15E.
Not to mention the DCS-level F-15C sim that's somewhere in the pipes. RAZBAM's F-15E, Iris' F-15E, ED's F-15C, and FC3's F-15C... Lots of Eagles potentially crowding the skies.
Granted, the Iris forum on the DCS message boards was removed/hidden some time ago. Not sure if that means anything about their DCS development though.
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Originally Posted By: Tertius
Originally Posted By: AggressorBLUE
Even more annoying because Iris is already making an F-15E.
Not to mention the DCS-level F-15C sim that's somewhere in the pipes. RAZBAM's F-15E, Iris' F-15E, ED's F-15C, and FC3's F-15C... Lots of Eagles potentially crowding the skies.
Granted, the Iris forum on the DCS message boards was removed/hidden some time ago. Not sure if that means anything about their DCS development though.
The F-15C and the F-15E are two very different beasts.
Of course, but it'd still be nice to have a greater variety of airframes represented at DCS fidelity (e.g., the Harrier, AH-64, Mig-29, etc.) when we only have such a limited selection at the moment. At any rate, I would have preferred to have seen the Harrier sooner rather than later, so I'm a tad disappointed by the above news. Seems like it would mesh well with the F/A-18C's rumored carrier ops.
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I am desperate for any kind of fast jet carrier ops.
Same! I've lots of great memories playing Jane's US Navy/Marine Fighter so I've been hoping to scratch that particular itch in DCS with the Harrier (it was always one of my favorites as a kid); looks like the Hornet might be released first, which I suppose makes sense if ED is going to be the one to lay the groundwork (waterwork?) for carrier ops in DCS.
Recently, though, I've been getting my naval aviation fix with the T-28C for X-Plane.
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Not to mention the DCS-level F-15C sim that's somewhere in the pipes. RAZBAM's F-15E, Iris' F-15E, ED's F-15C, and FC3's F-15C... Lots of Eagles potentially crowding the skies.
This is a type of disinformation that has been disseminated and for some reason readily consumed by the masses. There have been hardcore F-16's and F-18's running around for quite a while. In reality, there are no, nor have there ever been, any hardcore F-15's of any kind, flying, or that have ever flown.
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WANT!
The Harrier that is. And a Tornado. And a Sepecat Jaguar.
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Originally Posted By: toonces
Dude, the Jaguar is perhaps the ugliest airplane ever conceived. Please, for the love of Jad, do not produce a Jaguar!
Nothing wrong with this beauty! And it has a great personality
Edited by Legend (04/12/1305:42 AM)
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Not to mention the DCS-level F-15C sim that's somewhere in the pipes. RAZBAM's F-15E, Iris' F-15E, ED's F-15C, and FC3's F-15C... Lots of Eagles potentially crowding the skies.
This is a type of disinformation that has been disseminated and for some reason readily consumed by the masses. There have been hardcore F-16's and F-18's running around for quite a while. In reality, there are no, nor have there ever been, any hardcore F-15's of any kind, flying, or that have ever flown.
I can't help but think that you've entirely misapprehended the point. Here is the relevant misinformation for your perusal:
Registered: 02/15/00
Posts: 35593
Loc: Space Coast, USA
Originally Posted By: Wolfen
Quote:
Not to mention the DCS-level F-15C sim that's somewhere in the pipes. RAZBAM's F-15E, Iris' F-15E, ED's F-15C, and FC3's F-15C... Lots of Eagles potentially crowding the skies.
This is a type of disinformation that has been disseminated and for some reason readily consumed by the masses. There have been hardcore F-16's and F-18's running around for quite a while. In reality, there are no, nor have there ever been, any hardcore F-15's of any kind, flying, or that have ever flown.
There's been an F-15E to the same level as the F/A-18E. There's never been an F/A-18A/C to that level, nor an F-15C. So there is a direct analogy between the two. The F-16C of course was handled.
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What you are describing are things that do not already exist and are in the abstract. The point is that you make it seem as though we are suffering from F-15 exhaustion, and of course that is not the case, and I was making more of an overall observation. Of the aircraft you mentioned, two are not being produced substantively by ED in house, and could have some characteristics related to FSX, although I don't know that for sure and I am not implying they would not be quality projects. The FC3 F-15C, as ED has indicated repeatedly, is a mid-level simulation, not a study level simulation in the same category such as the A-10C.
I'm not suggesting that we're presently suffering from F-15 fatigue, though I do worry that that become the case. I (along with others, I'd imagine) would be equally apprehensive about the simultaneous development of multiple Su-27s, Mi-24s, or indeed Harriers, or any other aircraft. DCS as a 'platform' is still very much in its infancy and I think that it and the combat sim community would currently be better served by a greater breadth of aircraft than it would be by iterations of/variations on a single one. All this to say that I would have liked to have seen RAZBAM forge ahead with the AV-8B rather than put it on the back-burner.
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I'm not suggesting that we're presently suffering from F-15 fatigue, though I do worry that that become the case. I (along with others, I'd imagine) would be equally apprehensive about the simultaneous development of multiple Su-27s, Mi-24s, or indeed Harriers, or any other aircraft. DCS as a 'platform' is still very much in its infancy and I think that it and the combat sim community would currently be better served by a greater breadth of aircraft than it would be by iterations of/variations on a single one. All this to say that I would have liked to have seen RAZBAM forge ahead with the AV-8B rather than put it on the back-burner.
There are currently several announced projects that provide sufficient variety for multiple aircraft types to furnish any justification for that type of concern. Many of these concepts were originally developed as offshoots, but it is the attempt at times to cloud reality that I find disagreeable.
There's been an F-15E to the same level as the F/A-18E. There's never been an F/A-18A/C to that level, nor an F-15C. So there is a direct analogy between the two. The F-16C of course was handled.
I'm talking about current day standards. In its time, Falcon 3.0 was the epitome of flight simulation, now its barely recognizable. I doubt projects developed specifically for the FSX platform are being referenced as true combat simulation representations. The VRS Superbug, however, is a sufficiently complex simulation to afford some deference and overlap as a true combat simulation within FSX limitations. Also, I regard the Seven-G F-18C as a mid high to hardcore level fix, and that doesn't really include ongoing current project development.
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I have no knowledge of anything MSFS-related, as it's not a combat sim and I have no interest in it.
I was referring to the two Jane's sims of the F-15E and Super Hornet. They were not DCS level, but they certainly surpassed Falcon 3 and most others before and after, and were arguably as good as Falcon 4 from a systems-modeling perspective (even if the rest of the sim around them was not as complex). The SAR imaging in the F-15E was quite well done.
The Hornet sims from Graphsim were never that good, and other than the LOMAC/FC/2/3 F-15C there's never been a C-model sim of any fidelity made anywhere else.
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you know.... the proper harrier 
Ideally, I was hoping DCS themselves would make a Harrier, but I suppose this is way better than what we have now (that would nothing lol) and will be watching this closely.
Those Bloody Yanks, pinching our Harriers and....*grumble...mutter* 
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