This photo of Manfred von Richthofen (on a bicycle), his father, and other Jasta 11 pilots
had been new to me so far.



1) Wolfgang Plüschow
2) Manfred Freiherr von Richthofen
3) Lothar Freiherr von Richthofen
4) Friedrich von Hartmann
5) (?)
6) (?)
7) Otto Brauneck
8) Albrecht Freiherr von Richthofen ("Flieger-Vater")
9) (?)

The photo is supposed to have been taken on the same day, when the famous
Roucourt garden stair picture was made.

I found it on the "Frontflieger" website here: http://www.frontflieger.de/2-j11.html

Always loved that photo. Still haven't determined whose/which Albatros D.III that is. The offset radiator reveals it isn't MvR's Le Petit Rouge. This machine has a square nose step, indicating this is one of the newer 600-series Albatros D.IIIs. Albrecht vR visited Roucourt 29 April. New 600-series D.IIIs in Jasta 11 by that date were 604/17, 609/17, 624/17, 626/17, 629/17, 632/17, 635/17. 604/17, 609/17, 624/17, 635/17 were received the day before; would they be completely overpainted by the following day? Don't know. The photo I have of 609/17 shows it lighter and without a "blast wrap" over the intake manifolds, as seen above, and this was in May. 629/17 was Allmenröder's machine, which had a white spinner and nose cowl, so it's not that machine. Wolff had 632/17, which was completely overpainted, but the only photos I've seen of this machine show that although it had a "blast wrap" over the intake manifolds, it had lighter (presumably pale blue) wheel covers. Did they later paint them red? Don't know. 624/17 was also overpainted in dark colors, likely red, although the tail appears to be a different color and had a white serial number, but I only have starboard views and can't see the intake manifolds well, and in the photo above I can't see the tail. So, don't know which machine! But always fun looking at new photos and trying to determine its identity.

What color was the Bike ?

Good one, Carrick - the freedom of the non-historian, to be cheeky about such questions!

Jim, it looks like an all dark (or red) plane to me, which would mean MvR, or anyone with a dark tailplane.
Are you sure, that MvR did not receive one of the new planes earlier than the main delivery batch?

just a guess. but the AC might possibly be wether Hans Hinsch's, or Otto von Brauneck's albatros.
at least for me it seems that the nose and part of the cowling left of the ladder have a different colour than the rest, though something darkish. so possibly green (hinsch) or blue (brauneck). both were alive when the old man visited the aerodrome, but who knows...

hinsch rather not as his wheels were whitish as it seems. so brauneck?

By this time J11 was painting its Albs red as a Staffel color, with different colored tails or noses for individual recognition. It's not Hinsch's plane because he's attributed to have flown 2016/16, which came from the first production batch of Alb DIIIs that didn't have the square nose step. Also, said to be in red/white stripes. Could be Brauneck's, don't know. Too bad we can't see more of the plane immediately behind it. Both planes are very close to where the famous J11 photo was taken with Le Petit Rouge, about a week(ish) earlier.

As far as MvR, I don't know if he received a 600-series plane earlier than they became available. They weren't ordered until February and began showing up two months later. MvR flew a 700-series DIII, 789/17, but that didn't arrive at J11 until 2 May, when he was gone on leave. He first scored in it in June 1917. Likely somebody had to fly it, in the meantime. Just leave a brand new Alb sitting around for six weeks? Maddingly, his translated combat reports don't reveal the serial numbers of his own planes very often during the months he flew Albs, but they do identify that one. Also, he could grab any plane on hand if he wanted, so I don't attribute that plane as "his" anymore because who knows if he just grabbed it for that sortie?

no matter who's AC that is, it's amazing what kind of talent you have for researching, analyzing facts, proving hard to prove things etc. in such an analytic style, jim
be it old threads in the aerodrome forum, or in your book. it's amazing
if you would spend enough time, you would for sure find out who shot JFK, what was before the big bang, and where the hell my second carkeys are. really enjoying your posts mate

Yes, I agree in your compliment, Creaghorn.
I'm a guy who easily is getting carried away with half-proofs, which he wants to believe are true.
Not so you, JFM. You would consider all eventualities and all available data and then some.
I think you are a very reliable historian, Jim.