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#3602620 - 07/06/12 11:29 AM Re: Can Falcon 4.0 BMS be enjoyed without the "study sim" part. [Re: redpiano]
RSColonel_131st Offline
Lifer

Registered: 01/02/01
Posts: 21266
Loc: Vienna, 2nd rock left.
The data cartridge is not so hard, and also not so 100% necessary at the beginning - what I find complicated is that the controls are tailored towards the real stick layout (i.e. four hat switches) and thus make little sense on the keyboard. It also reflects in the manual where TMG_UP or whatever that hatname is used instead of an actual key...


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#3602669 - 07/06/12 01:28 PM Re: Can Falcon 4.0 BMS be enjoyed without the "study sim" part. [Re: redpiano]
Kosmo. Offline
Member

Registered: 01/23/07
Posts: 799
Loc: Greece
That's because TMS up for instance is used in the manuals more like a function name than a key press. You can assign it to whatever you want, the function it preforms will still be TMS up. What I mean is that in the real jet its called TMS up as well, not drop bombs or whatever it might do (yeah it doesn't drop the bombs), mainly because these switches have multiple functions.

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#3602673 - 07/06/12 01:31 PM Re: Can Falcon 4.0 BMS be enjoyed without the "study sim" part. [Re: redpiano]
- Ice Offline
Hotshot

Registered: 06/23/05
Posts: 7409
Loc: Philippines / North East UK
The data cartridge thing is just stupid. It is blank by default, which means you get blank MFDs if you go to A-A or A-G mode --- why didn't they just put a proper "default" data cartridge which the pilot can modify to suit later?

redpaino, this "elephant" can be eaten one small bite at a time. The scope of the sim alone means that there is so much to learn it could take you years before you know the majority of them. However, to ENJOY this sim, you don't really have to know very much. What's your poison? A-G CCIP bombing? CCRP? Laser-guided munitions? Or do you prefer A-A BVR fights? Or A-A knife fights? Pick one thing you want to learn and do it.

The only downside to this is that the more limited your skillset is, the less missions you get to fly in a campaign. And with all that is going on in a campaign, you might get "lost" in all that as well. Solution? Custom missions and TEs.

I would advise against Kraus' tutorials though... I don't believe that learning all those errors is a good way to start your Falcon learning experience.
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#3602679 - 07/06/12 02:11 PM Re: Can Falcon 4.0 BMS be enjoyed without the "study sim" part. [Re: - Ice]
redpiano Offline
Member

Registered: 08/06/11
Posts: 874
What is AG CCIP bombing? What's CCRP? Laser guided munitions? AA BVR fights? AA Knife fights?.....

WHAT?

the reason I'm not into the study part is because I play many different games on a regular basis, I'm not the type of simmer that bought a PC just to play flight sims. Currently I play Rise of flight, occasionally Cliffs of dover and a dozen regular old games, I just don't have the interest or time to invest in one game alone for months on end before I even know how to take off and shoot something down.

So clearly this isn't for me.

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#3602703 - 07/06/12 03:06 PM Re: Can Falcon 4.0 BMS be enjoyed without the "study sim" part. [Re: redpiano]
- Ice Offline
Hotshot

Registered: 06/23/05
Posts: 7409
Loc: Philippines / North East UK
Ah, I beg to differ. What you learn in Falcon, you may already know... or at least the basics.

AG = air-to-ground, aka mud moving, bombing, tank plinking, etc.
AA = air-to-air

CCIP and CCRP are different bombing modes. CCIP is "old-style" bombing (manual bombing mode) wherein you wait until the pipper is on the target then press the pickle button to release. CCRP is "assisted" bombing whereby you lock your target either by radar or targeting pod and the computer gives you HUD cues to fly and the computer releases the bomb at the appropriate time. Unlike manual iron sights though, the flight computer in both modes helps the pilot, ie in CCIP (continously computed impact point), the computer shows you where your bomb will hit (pipper) if you release at that moment, so you maneuver and wait until the target is under the pipper, pickle, and the bomb comes off --- but still the computer was helping you there by showing you where your bomb is calculated to hit. Much more accurate than simple iron sights simply because the computer accounts for airspeed, dive angle, height, etc. etc.

Surely you've heard of laser guided munitions? Simple dumb bombs with a laser seeker added on the nose and some controllable fins added to the back end --- you can release from high altitude and the bomb will find a laser-designated target, home in on it, and boom! Precision munitions!

BVR is beyond visual range --- engagements done with medium-range (or long-range) missiles with targets designated via radar.

Knife fights is when you merge and dance around in the air in a struggle to get angles and get a shot at the enemy. Basically what you do in RoF/CoD with machine guns, only in Falcon you can use AIM-9 Sidewinders too and guns. "Knife fight" is a term used because it is close-in fighting.




****************************

Still reading? Good. That was one bite biggrin

IME, all the acronyms are really confusing at first. I remember when I started out in DCS A10C. We have the UFC and the CDI, marking the targets as SPI and making sure we have the proper SOI. And clicking DMS Up Short and China Hat Forward Long... confusing! But all I really needed was to find out what they are, and using them over and over made them familiar, and soon enough I learned enough to enjoy DCS A10C!

This is just like tabletop RPG games. Better to get a new player gaming and interested and hooked, then show him the manual but let him read just a few "essential" pages.... I know a lot of guys who said "no" just because they thought they had to read and memorize the whole player's manual.

In any case, redpiano, if you ARE interested to learn even just one aspect of the sim (bombing? refuelling? air-to-air?), I would be glad to teach you what I know. Do not let the words "study sim" and the numerous acronyms intimidate you. Falcon is one of the best sims available, and it has that reputation for a reason!
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#3602712 - 07/06/12 03:43 PM Re: Can Falcon 4.0 BMS be enjoyed without the "study sim" part. [Re: - Ice]
redpiano Offline
Member

Registered: 08/06/11
Posts: 874
Are there at least in game tutorials ala. DCS a10c? That made learning what little I learned about that game much easier.

I'm mostly interested in air to air combat, dogfights, knife fights, whatever they're called in these parts.

Is BMS at least easy to obtain and install? And is there any place to buy and download Falcon instead of using a CD? Do I need a specific version or copy of Falcon?

If I can get the main game for rather cheap I'd be fine with just trying it out.

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#3602719 - 07/06/12 04:08 PM Re: Can Falcon 4.0 BMS be enjoyed without the "study sim" part. [Re: redpiano]
- Ice Offline
Hotshot

Registered: 06/23/05
Posts: 7409
Loc: Philippines / North East UK
That's the downside of Falcon BMS. The old F4AF/F4 tutorials have been "ported over" to BMS so you can do them if you wish, however, if you use these tutorials with the old manuals (F4AF or F4), things can get confusing because the manuals tell you to expect one thing but this is usually not the case as to what you can see in the sim. And no, there are no "interactive tutorials" either. DCS A10C has spoiled us!

There are "tutorial scripts" but again these are in varying levels of "complete-ness." The rampstart script is excellent, but the others leave a lot to be desired.

This is the biggest downside of Falcon BMS. I don't mind a study sim, but BMS does not make it easy. It isn't exactly a newbie-friendly sim, and the official BMS forums don't offer much help either. The manuals are confusing and expect you to have knowledge of previous iterations of Falcon or BMS. Red Dog has recently come up with a "Dash-1" manual that reads like the DCS systems portions of the manual and is a very good source of info, but aside from that.... well, let's just say there is vast room for improvement. Again, the reason for pushing newcomers to join a virtual squadron that can show them the ropes, or fly with someone who does.

Regarding install, BMS is free to download (the install process is confusing too!) but you need the original Falcon 4 CD (will not work with AF!) as the installer will look for the .exe file.

"It isn't Falcon if you don't have to do the install dance." biggrin


If you are willing to go through all that headache, there is a bright light at the end of the tunnel though. I find Falcon 4 to be great for air-to-air. Falcon has a "feature" called smart scaling which basically makes things a bit bigger than they are in real life so that it is easier to spot. Finding ground targets, heck, finding your flight lead for a rejoin is much, much, much, much, much, much easier in BMS than it is in DCS! Air-to-Air is more fun too, even compared to Flaming Cliffs 2. Amazing how simple "I can find my target and maneuver for a shot" is made easier because of smart scaling. Obviously this is important since closure rates and engagement distances are much bigger/faster/further than in older WWII sims.
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#3602790 - 07/06/12 07:12 PM Re: Can Falcon 4.0 BMS be enjoyed without the "study sim" part. [Re: redpiano]
redpiano Offline
Member

Registered: 08/06/11
Posts: 874
Alright well if you can direct me to the manual and download site for BMS, I'll pickup the CD and at least give it a shot.

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#3602799 - 07/06/12 07:33 PM Re: Can Falcon 4.0 BMS be enjoyed without the "study sim" part. [Re: redpiano]
- Ice Offline
Hotshot

Registered: 06/23/05
Posts: 7409
Loc: Philippines / North East UK
_________________________
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#3602817 - 07/06/12 08:53 PM Re: Can Falcon 4.0 BMS be enjoyed without the "study sim" part. [Re: - Ice]
ataribaby Offline
Member

Registered: 10/22/01
Posts: 216
Loc: Liberec, Czech Republic
Originally Posted By: - Ice
The data cartridge thing is just stupid. It is blank by default, which means you get blank MFDs if you go to A-A or A-G mode --- why didn't they just put a proper "default" data cartridge which the pilot can modify to suit later?


http://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showt...-mode-Read-here

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