Okay, what worked well and what could have worked better?

Please add your thoughts now while the series is still fresh in your mind.

Thanks!

+
Race format
Track selection
Cars

-
Difference between cars not considered
2 classes (I personnaly prefer one class with an extended scoring system)

Suggests :
Maybe some league format, where every car is given the same .hdv file
Standing start for sprint races

I loved the format and the fact that there was such a difference in the cars. It was great that some cars suited particular tracks so in the end everything was kind of equal. If I was to change anything it would be that drivers choose one car and stick to it but I can also see the reasons why this wasnt implemented.

I agree sticking with one car would be cool. Norisring was painful in my Porsche, was okay at Hockenheim, but awesome at LeMans. Wish I could have run at Zvoort. Other cars had better advantages for some twisty tracks where I finally had an advantage for one race with brut strength and speed at LeMans...so it kind of evens out.

I'd like to see more drivers! I had my doubts about this mod when I first tried it, but once you kind of get the feel for the cars it's an awesome mod.

Even though I was only involved in the Hockenheim and le Mans races, I did put many a mile in different cars at Zandvoort and Norisring offline...

pros
Tight twisty tracks and fast flowing ones made for the mix of cars to get advantages at different tracks
THE CARS OH MY THE CARS!!!!!
The race format, the 2 half hour races really suited these cars, and the sprint races were a blast.

Cons
not enough entrants
The cars were too spread out in performance at Le Mans

Suggestions
More tracks and a longer series, I could race these all year...
Make it like touring cars were in the 80s, with group A for the M1 and 935, Group B for the Celica and Capri, and Group C for the 320 and Lancia...
OR give every car the M1 engine and the 320 or Lancia handling for a league edition...

Personally I'd like to see both the group A,B,C and league options used in the future...

PROS

+ DRM Mod... spectacular, could race it all year as Pumba mentioned
+ Small differences in cars
+ Great selection of tracks
+ Race format is excellent, if you mess up in the first race you can have a chance in the second
+ Reverse grid was exciting
+ Rolling start
+ Starting time


CONS

- Too many classes spreads the field too thin, would rather see a maximum of 2 classes
- Fast drivers in slower cars
- Car switching (not a problem for the first series, but rather not see it in the next one)


SUGGESTIONS

I would also like to have the cars equal, but not exact duplicates as I think that takes away much of the allure and excitement of the mod. So instead I think we should keep only 4 cars.

Class PRO = M1 + 935 (M1 is faster)
Class AM = Toyota + Ford (not sure which is faster)

The Lancia and 320 are too slow, and we do not have a large enough field to accommodate wheel to wheel racing across that many classes.

Even though there are 2 classes, the AM class has a chance of competing for the win with the PRO class on given tracks, definitely. To even it out over the (hopefully) many series that we run, there should be no changing of cars, since we all know what we like to drive now.

Fast drivers (they know who they are) should race in the faster class.

Whatever we do, I know that I will be sticking to the Porsche, just love it


EXPERIMENTATION

I can put together a quick mod of equal engines for the M1 and 935, and the Ford and Toyota for you guys to try out.

The M1 was only quick at Le Mans because of the grunt... Overall the M1 is actually slower through the corners than the 935 and is much more unstable on the brakes... So on the shorter twistier tracks would be a sitting duck to the 935 and the Ford... I'm 40 seconds slower around the Nordschleife in the M1 compared to the Ford for example...

As for the Totyota and Capri once again they both have different aspects that make them quick, I haven't given the Celica a lot of time (perhaps Birdski can chime in on that one), but the Ford is great at changing direction...

As for the 2 class Idea, I'd rather make the pro class the Group B or C cars and the AM drivers be in the faster cars... It would make the whole field a lot closer... Maybe put the Lancia engine in the 320 and make that the PRO class and leave the Capri and Celica alone for the Am Class...

The biggest problem with the car selection for me is that I want to drive them all... They all offer so much fun... But if I had to sit down and take one for a series it wouldn't be the 935 or M1 but the Capri, Lancia or 320 depending on how tight the tracks were....

Hmm, I don't know about that. I was quicker in the M1 around Zandvoort with little practice and no tuning, so I would say it is faster, but not by much. Though the M1 is more trickier to handle than the 935. But I have no problem with that, because track variety will sort that out.

The problem with the slower drivers in the faster cars is that they actually prefer the slower, more stable cars. But having said that, the Ford and Toyota are only marginally slower but much more stable. So really, perhaps all 4 cars should be open to everyone, since they're all pretty close. But I definitely do not want to see the Lancia and 320 running unless we have 20+ drivers (doesn't matter how fast you are in them, look at DB/Arthur, you will not challenge the M1/935 with an equal driver).

I'm always in two minds about these sorts of discussions. On the one hand anything that makes the racing closer is good for the series. On the other i'd prefer not to have my hands tied on car choice and I love seeing the differences between cars. For me that part of what makes multi car/class racing so cool. I don't think it's fair to start eliminating vehicles otherwise why not eliminate the M1 and 935 because they are too fast?

Mind you, a Single spec race would definitely be interesting...

Maybe we make every race single spec and rotate through the cars?

On the whole i thought the series was a big success, the mod is great, thee track selection was good and the 2 x 30 min format is perfect for these beasts. Having said that, my personal favourite was the final at LM but i'll always tend to favour longer races...

Any physics adjustments would have to be made sympathetically to preserve the general characteristics of the mod. If you had a Lancia with the same top speed as an M1 it would annihilate everything. Might be worth experimenting by bring the 320 and Lancia closer to the rest though.

I do agree with what you're saying, maybe it's just because the field wasn't very big. In any case, I'd be happy to run the exact same selection of cars for another series.

Yea. with more drivers there would be a much better spread.

Couple of leftfield ideas...

Make each race single spec and rotate through the vehicles.

Or have the same amount of events as there are cars, but each driver can only use each car once.

YES!!!! LOVE IT!!!!

I'd also like to see a series with the Lancia engine in the 320 and have the Lancia and 320 as the PRO class and leave the Capri and Celica alone and have them available for the AM Class... As the Celica and the Capri are pretty rigid to drive in comparison to the M1 and 935... And have it set in a similar 2 30 minute races and a sprint race formula...

And a series of each race being single spec and rotate through the vehicles. Maybe make this more of a sprint series with 3 20 minute races... and have it on a weekly basis with a by week in the middle for another race/mod to be fit in like the F1 classics...

I'd also love to try a full endurance season with the 320 with the Lancia engine at tracks like Bathurst, Road America, Suzuka, Silverstone (79), and other great tracks...



I think the problem with the 935 around Zandy and Norisring was down to the gear ratio and only having 4 gears, when there's a lot of going through the box the 935 suffers, which is why I originally rated it alongside to the 320, but overall it's the better package compared to the M1 because like the 320 the handling is so much better...



I'm of the same thinking as DB, If we were to eliminate 2 cars from the mod for equality purposes I'd get rid of the 935 and M1... Simply because the Lancia and 320 are so much better through the corners than the Capri and Celica, which is only made up on the straights... The problem for the 320 is it's just lacking grunt, but it's so silky smooth through the corners it's just a joy to drive...

Aw, no love for the 935 Now I'm thinking leave it as it is :p

I like the 1 car per track idea, but thought that may complicate things and put people off.

Maybe we are overthinking this considering the series was a success?

Even though i didn't race, i believe in the hunt to have near real life simulation the difference in cars should be kept, i quite like the idea of being able to race in series online where at one track you may have the best car but at another you have to overcome the cars lack of qualities to still be near the front.

I didn't race so i dont know about the actual events, but i saw standing start for sprint races mentioned, i'd go with that, love standing starts in these touring car type series, for endurance races rolling start all the way but for these things id go with standing starts.

The thing is i'm more attracted to racing in a series if there is individual car performances rather than have all cars set to the same power, weight etc, it just adds that extra element of Real Life to it I know we have car performance differences in SCES, and although it isn't a huge gap, well sometiems a second or 2, it still provided an awesome feeling to know that at some tracks you really had to battle to be where you wanted to be cos of the car.

just my little input.

Well even though it was a success for those who participated, we still want to increase the numbers...

like I said earlier though I could run this mod all year, and lots of smaller series with differences in the line ups could entice more people to join up... I think the 1 car per race idea with everyone in the same car might well be a very good way of getting more drivers in, and then we could spice it up with the 6 races where you pick and choose your car, although I have a feeling that the 'pros' will end up all in the same car at the same track for that series anyway...

And it's not so much no love for the 935, it's a great car to drive, it's more trying to even up the field as we saw throughout the series the Capri, Celica, and Lancia were all very very close in comparison to the 935, M1 and 320...

Have you tried getting a gridfull of these off the line in one piece?



I'll be very interested to see laptime comparisons at the Ring. I genuinely don't know if the grunt of the M1/935 will be a huge advantage, or the cornering of the Lancia/320 might even give them the edge. I suspect the former.

I might run a few laps on the Lancia while i'm still familiar with it.

I will run a few laps with the 935....... any excuse

I've got mixed feelings. The Toyoder and the Ford are really quite close performance wise, at least at LM. But I also clearly remember getting smoked badly by the Ford at Zandy and the Norisring. All of the cars are probably equally fun and frustrating all at the same time. My biggest gripe is lack of parity, especially given the size of the driver fields.

From my experience it's the latter, with the Ford being in the middle and faster than all... The M1 is some 40+ seconds slower around the lap than the Ford and is the slowest out of the mod... The 320 isn't much better because of it's overall lack of acceleration and top end, but it makes up for it through the corners to be a bit better than the M1... The Porsche sits in the middle but is very hard on it's engine and suffers from it's gear ratio, while the Lancia and Ford are the best through the corners around there...

If you can beat a 7:04 in the Lancia than the Lancia is the best...

Which version is it? VLN? Tourist?

Lol hahaha now seriously, the Tourist version right?

I agree.

Yeah the Green hell version we've run here in the past, without the new track, I guess that's the tourist version because you start in the car park...

I just took the M1 out and beat my previous best in it by 25 seconds with the changes I made for Le Mans, I then took the 935 out and it's actually quite quick when you find that line so you don't blow up... lol

935 7.02.1
Capri 7.04.8
320 7.15.6
M1 7.19.5

The Capri and the 320 are old times from me... There's possibly more speed out there now that I've spent the past month and a bit focussed on these cars...

I haven't set a time in the Lancia or Celica yet...

So I was a bit wrong, the 935 is still the fastest car in the mod, but the Capri ain't far off around here... I'll have a go with the Lancia and Celica later this week and report back...

How'd I miss that...

Yep I agree I quite like the mod as is, Would just love to have more drivers on track...

If we're going to get into discussion about testing cars round the ring it might be an idea to open up a new thread for that.

I only ran the first race and didn't really have the time for the rest, so I didn't really get to see the differences between cars play out.

...and to be completely honest, the driver aids were the only reason I completed the first event. I don't have the talent to keep these things on track and would likely DNF every single race within the first two laps.

THAT SAID...a couple of ideas I'm going to throw out for general consumption:


1. Rather than focus on an individual driver's championship, make it a manufacturer effort. Each car has a roughly equal number of drivers doing their best for the team.
2. Don't make all the cars exactly equal, but find some way to help the "lesser" cars. Grant them a little more engine power, maybe? Getting that right would obviously require testing time from some of the fast, consistent aliens drivers. (with great power comes great responsibility)


If all the cars were on slightly-more-equal footing, and you have a good selection of tracks, I think you'd have a good series.

Get onto it, Mr. Mod!

I'm sub 7 minutes with the Porsche so far.. still time to gain with a clean lap. So it may be fast but boy oh boy is it notoriously difficult to drive, and you need to know every bump of the circuit or your engine will be toast in a few laps.

If you guys are going to do testing, best to base it on v2.0b (also known as 2.02).

I'll set-up a SimHQ mirror for it, but in the meantime...

http://www.rfactorcentral.com/detail.cfm?ID=DRM%20Revival

Pro:
- the cars are fantastic. Albeit I'd personally steer clear of some of them.
- race format
- track selection (but simultaneously a con)

Cons:
- a mixed track selection would be preferrable. That means, at least one short and very twisty track where Porsches/M1s have trouble, but
the 320 can play out it's strengths to the maximum should be included.
- the series could use more drivers for larger fields. But that's a factor which cannot be as much influenced as anything else.


Thoughts:

First of all, the series was a success in my book and as Ahmad said in different words, we should be careful too overcomplicate things.

Historically there was a "Big" and a "small" division in DRM. There also was a time when there was a championship within the championship as the Deutsche Rennsport Trophäe was held within the DRM races for Group 2 and 4 cars. In this mod there are only group 5 cars, but it might be an option. Keeping in mind what I said above about making things too complicated...instead of changing the cars at all, how about a multipliying factor? As an example, a point at LeMans for the 320 is worth as much as 5 points for the Porsche. But this would get messy.

Editing the cars/league edition: When I said via TS I want to try the M1 engine in the 320 I just wanted to do that for some offline fun, I didn't think about putting something like that into use into the series. Personally I am not fond of a league edition, as it will take away too much "character" of the specific cars. I'm also sceptical about removing the 320 (or any other car) from the field. Slow or not, I rather have fun in this one than take a car which I don't like as much and having some fun was my main motivation here, as I seriously couldn't expect a victory at all. I was tempted several times to take a different car, but always the fun factor of the 320 prevailed, even at LeMans. And the M1 was more pain than fun for me, I just shunted it too often and wanted to avoid a DNF at LeMans. Besides, my best time was a 3:36 in practice, and I seriously don't know how to become 10 seconds fast in it to be competitive, given the times I've seen from the leaders.



That said, if the general consensus is that some cars should be removed I am with Pumbaa, as the M1 and 935 outpace anything else by a great margin on straights.

I agree that car switching is not so desirable. Hence my proposal for shorter and twistier tracks.



Some links which might be of interest:

http://www.racing-history.de/Warm_Up/Gruppe_5/gruppe_5.html (sorry, it's in German, but check the specs below the text. Imo the cars are different in the DRM mod)

These links are in English though:

http://touringcarracing.net/Pages/DRM.html

http://touringcarracing.net/Pages/DRT.html

Pros:
-The cars. These things are just awesome to drive. I love classic cars and these are the top of the tintops from that era.
-The mix of sprint and main races packed in 2 hours.
-Very different tracks to suit the different cars.
-The very limited setup options in this mod. No need to spend hours to tune your setup. Just a few tweaks and start doing laps.

Cons:
-The series was way to short.

Suggestions:
-A few more races.
-More tracks that suit the the slower but better handling cars.
-Maybe a system to get everyone to drive different cars during the series. I have no good idea at the moment how to do that. I wouldn't mind doing the complete series again with the 935.

+1 for no setting up, I'm way past that these days.

Thanks everyone for your feedback. It does help and some very good points in here. Keep it coming.

Not following Ahmad. What comment were you referencing? Thanks.

I think he was agreeing with Robs comment about the lack of setup options in these cars.

Thanks Darren.

Good point. Albeit I don't mind creating a custom setup nowadays, the restricted options here are refreshing. The amount being available is perfect.

Almost totally agree about setuping, but what I really miss is the bump/rebound setting, so you can adjust the behaviour in braking or throttling only.