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#3604028 - 07/09/12 11:43 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: GrayGhost]
Lonewolf357 Offline
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Registered: 01/12/12
Posts: 171
Originally Posted By: GrayGhost


To compound this, the B-2 can drop munitions from a fairly long distance depending on its flight profile. The GBU's it drops are essentially glide-bombs, and they will happily glide for a little while ... so there's a bit more stand-off capability than for the F-117.



Did they used JSOW? Because JDAM's "glide" capability is not much different from that of ordinary iron bomb.


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#3604034 - 07/09/12 11:54 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Lonewolf357]
Hpasp Online   grunt
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Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 1733
Loc: Hungary, Europe
Originally Posted By: Lonewolf357
Originally Posted By: GrayGhost


To compound this, the B-2 can drop munitions from a fairly long distance depending on its flight profile. The GBU's it drops are essentially glide-bombs, and they will happily glide for a little while ... so there's a bit more stand-off capability than for the F-117.



Did they used JSOW? Because JDAM's "glide" capability is not much different from that of ordinary iron bomb.


They used (calculations based on the receiving side...)
grunt

2000lbs (907kg)
609 GBU-31/1 Mk-84
43 GBU-31/3 BLU-109

4700lbs (2130kg)
4 GBU-37/B

All-together 656 weapons during 45 sorties with 87% of hit rate.



Edited by Hpasp (07/09/12 12:29 PM)
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#3604092 - 07/09/12 01:17 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Lonewolf357]
GrayGhost Online   content
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Registered: 12/17/03
Posts: 4372
It's quite different, actually. While the glide ratio undoubtedly sucks, you're not going to 'glide' an iron bomb onto a target from 10nm. You might hit, sure, but with the JDAM you will hit. Those little strakes turn a bullet into a lifting body. It makes some difference.

Originally Posted By: Lonewolf357
Did they used JSOW? Because JDAM's "glide" capability is not much different from that of ordinary iron bomb.
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#3604094 - 07/09/12 01:21 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: GrayGhost]
Hpasp Online   grunt
Member

Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 1733
Loc: Hungary, Europe
Originally Posted By: GrayGhost
It's quite different, actually. While the glide ratio undoubtedly sucks, you're not going to 'glide' an iron bomb onto a target from 10nm. You might hit, sure, but with the JDAM you will hit. Those little strakes turn a bullet into a lifting body. It makes some difference.


Problem is that the SAM's were could be pop up unexpectedly bit more than ~15nm before the target in your path, with 14nm range, so you need to cross their destruction zone (alltogether ~30nm,from 60 feet till 60'000 feet in altitude), anyway...
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Edited by Hpasp (07/09/12 01:41 PM)
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Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

While Fighter Pilots made movies, SAM Officers made History.
(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
thumbsup

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#3604100 - 07/09/12 01:30 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]
GrayGhost Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 12/17/03
Posts: 4372
My mistake anyway, the B-2's back then used GAMs, not JDAM's. GAMs don't seem to have a lifting body kit installed, so the drop range would be shorter.

And yes, I understand about positioning of the SAM ... but it seems they had no effect on B-2 flights. I would guess they were busy with other things.
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#3604160 - 07/09/12 03:17 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]
Zoky Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/03/11
Posts: 37
I think that someone posted here interview with Zelko where he says that there were some 60+ unsuccessfil fireings at B2's. Serbian pvo know about b2s but didnt have means to shot it down

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#3604193 - 07/09/12 04:03 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]
GrayGhost Online   content
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Registered: 12/17/03
Posts: 4372
Zoltan did not even know he had shot at an F-117. How the heck would others know that they were shooting at B-2's?
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#3604211 - 07/09/12 04:27 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]
Zoky Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/03/11
Posts: 37
I said Zelko(F117 pilot) not Zoltan. And he was referring that stelth doesn't mean invisibility but rather low observability


Edited by Zoky (07/09/12 04:28 PM)

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#3604286 - 07/09/12 06:25 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]
Lieste Online   sigh
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Registered: 10/07/08
Posts: 1318
Mind you NATO seems to have a blind spot where guidance signals = firing, which just isn't true for most of these...

They did it during Linebacker, the A12 missions some years previously, and seem to be making the same error here. 'Searching' with the FCR for an elusive target visible on a longer wavelength radar and not finding it is not exactly the same as an 'unsuccessful firing', neither is locking a target 'firing' a missile, no matter how strident the ECM gear is about it. Only where a weapon leaves the rail can you talk about a fired missile.

At best the remainder are "unsuccessful engagements", or "acquisitions with no engagement", or "incomplete acquisitions".

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#3604347 - 07/09/12 09:14 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Zoky]
GrayGhost Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 12/17/03
Posts: 4372
'Everyone' knows that stealth means 'significant reduction in detection range' and not invisible.

How would he know what the Serbs knew?

Originally Posted By: Zoky
I said Zelko(F117 pilot) not Zoltan. And he was referring that stelth doesn't mean invisibility but rather low observability


Edited by GrayGhost (07/09/12 09:15 PM)
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