I agree with Recluse here- far from being the conspiracy minded or mystical or emotionally type, I can only conclude that the agenda with regards to drugs is either incoherent at best, or one big lie at worst. You have to wonder why THC, Peyote, LSD and mushrooms are Schedule I controlled substances in the same class as heroin, while drugs like Adderall (amphetamine salts- sound familiar?) and prescription based methamphetamine are Schedule 2. After all, heroin is chemically related to morphine and exhibits similar effects and has the same draw backs- but one is legal (with restrictions), and the other isn't.

I just presume in the first place the government agencies are usually either misinformed or misinform.

I don't care what level these drugs are rated at for whatever classification purpose. Pretty much you can guarantee that it's bad sh** and that more often than not it has adverse affects on both the user and those who they come in contact with. (yes.. even mary jane) This argument of which brand of poison is worse is rather silly when when you're talking about the bottom line of one's physical and emotional well being.

My brother is a Sherrif Deputy here in SoCal and these friggin' "bath salts" are really, really scary. He has told me some really ugly stories of what people have done while on them. They cause a complete psychotic break in many people even after a single use. He told me about a dude who had a perfectly normal life with kids, a good job, was in-shape and was just a regular guy. Then he took some of this crap at a party and next thing you know he is naked, running down the street screaming, assaults and tries to kill a couple taking a walk. Takes 4 deputies to subdue him. In the jail sick bay he has to be constantly sedated. If not restrained, he flops onto the floor and just lies there stiff. Brain is complete mush. Life destroyed and going to a mental institution. I thought he was kidding, but he showed me pictures of this dude on the floor naked.

Definitely some really awful stuff.

BTW this stuff is coming from overseas and is a designer drug disguised as bath salts and other stuff to get through customs.

Jason

If that's the case, no one has any consistent position here, other than those who promote abstinence of all things- including alcohol. I know of no other drugs that correlate more damage to oneself or to others, directly or indirectly than that. Alcohol is a drug, a fact that is overlooked. Anyone want to tell me why alcohol is not a Schedule I controlled substance in that

1) The drug or other substance has a high potential for abuse.

2) The drug or other substance has no currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States.

3) There is a lack of accepted safety for use of the drug or other substance under medical supervision.

Ironically, alcohol is added to some pain relief and cold medicines- why is that? What effect is alcohol supposed to have, that any doctor would recommend for a good night's rest? Ever hear of a doctor recommending alcohol for any ailment? Alcohol is the original date rape drug, before man was creating these other monsters in laboratories.

I hope Carl is in the #%&*$# house.

My brother drank himself to death at 27. You don't need to lecture me about the effects of alchohol.

However if in your argument, you're trying to justify the legalization of the said substances, I would tell you to talk to the hand and say, we don't need anymore. Free recreational drug use can't be a productive thing to the going concern of society in the long run. And furthermore if you say that no entity should have any control over my personal enjoyment of my choice of poison, I might say - well those around you have a stake in it too - the majority of whom don't buy into it.

So that's my point, then you know- my family has had some bouts with alcoholism, but none as tragic as yours. Still, alcohol doesn't get the notoriety as something as exotic as 'bath salts,' and I can promise that alcohol is a far greater health threat to us all. I've come across more people who wanted to pick a fight drunk than on any other drug. For any large city on a weekend night, estimates are as high as 1 in 10 drivers would blow over the legal limit. I've never known anyone to overdose on other drugs which have an illegal, non-prescription status, such as THC, I've known one person who overdosed on sleeping pills, though.



I'm actually more interested in the de-criminalization of illegal substances, because I believe The War on Drugs 1) is an economic failure, 2) is immoral, and 3) combines the first two problems- actually creates more problems than it supports to solve. It creates the black market and makes it lucrative by creating an artificial scarcity- therefore the profit motive is enormous for some very shady people. It's the same effect that prohibition had, it created the bootleg market, mobsters who sold hooch out of speakeasies were only thankful that alcohol was illegal. There was no greater boon than an illegal product that people wanted.

The government doesn't care about the health effects of drugs on people- if it did, it would be interested in health treatments rather than incarceration. But it's treated as a criminal issue, not a health issue, incarceration has priority over all other programs, as treatment for users increasingly is de-funded as a waste of tax payer dollars, while there's never too much money to put people behind bars, the United States has one of the highest incarceration rates for its population in the world, with drug use strongly related as the reason. Someone has a drug problem- separate them from their family throw them away behind bars with criminals, where they can get more drugs if they aren't brutalized first, ruin their lives. That's not exactly a solution to cure a drug problem, but creates more.

Keep in mind I don't recommend anything to anyone- I wouldn't recommend beer to anyone, unless they specifically ask me what my favorite label is. But you know, this weekend I have a date with someone, we've already made plans to go to a bar before we do anything else, I guess I'm going to ply my date with a little bit of alcohol, it's odd when you think about it.

Why do you think prohibition was overturned? And why haven't those same prinicples been applied to decriminalization of illicit drugs of today after all these years? As I recall prohibition lasted a relatively short time.

Is it because of a vast governmental scheme to make itelf useful or is it because people don't really want it? I think if people really wanted it and saw it as beneficial, then we'd have the eventual outcome by now.

Nevertheless.. you and I have some philosophical differences on this and I think the best we can do is to agree to disagree.

Technically it was overturned on issues relating to commerce- but there is a deeper question as to what the public was doing and the response to the public, seeing Prohibition as doing the opposite of what it was intended to do, since it didn't end drinking but simply made gangsters rich, any reason might do.



Well, I take a different reason as to why the outcome is what is- even as there is growing backlash to the War on Drugs, including conservative members of society who now look at it as futile, there is a lot of incorrect information out there which keeps the public kind of stunned or passive. As I've alluded to before, there's a lot of people who make their careers out of it, there are lobbies which don't tolerate any solutions that approach the problem differently.

Really, if you want to maintain the course, what would you see the finish line to the War on Drugs? All I see presently is a 'war' which will last indefinitely- no hope of being won or ending. What was that quote from Einstein about insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result? You could have put that money to other use- for job creation, for cancer or medical research, or that defense project, NASA or space exploration, or some other government pork of your choosing. With this it's an interminable money sink, no imagination at all in how to actually win it, basically people just promote the status quo- which does nothing.

Reminds me of the George Carlin bit about softening terminology.
From Shell Shock to Battle Fatigue to Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.

If they still called them "zombies" maybe this would attract the attention it needs!