whats the best of the following?

Oh Oh.. you missed EAW.

Those diehards will be here anon raising all kinds of Cain.

I find it sad that all of those games, except for Cliffs of Dover, are practically ancient by PC gaming standards now. Which means we haven't had a good WW2 sim in years...

My preferred WW2 has always been and remains Aces High. But aside from its limited plane set and issues with multiplayer, BOB2 rules.

Jane's WWII Fighters certainly had its moments.

Had a lot of fun with EAW while I was still able to get it running on one of my computers.


Wheels

As the combat flight sim (other than Combat Yeager) that got me hooked, I'd have to say Combat Flight Simulator. It's to bad I can't get it to run on my current system


Can't seem to get past the re assigning joystick thing...

Too broadbrush for me. Il-2 is great for online play, but woeful otherwise. Offline it has to be BoBII Wings Of Victory. It has the best AI, and the game detail is streets ahead of anything else out there.

But the sim that has given me the most enjoyment? EAW!

BoB II for me. CoD just to many problems.

Without a doubt pound for pound it's IL2.

Considering that this 11 year old sim is still getting new members and new updates, has a plane set that is unmatched in terms of variety and fidelity of FMS & DMS, a theater set that is also unmatched in terms of variety and quauality and scope of maps .. and that it can still run well on PCs that are 5+ years old and the newest PCs & OSs, has a great online component to it and while lacking in some ways offline is not bad either if you design missions with the sim's limitations in mind, IMO makes IL2 1946 the hands down best WWII combat sim out on the market today.

For me, the best sim that I like to tinker with in the WW2 genre is Fighter Squadron: The Screamin' Demons Over Europe (SDOE). For for on-line and off-line play I really love the IL-2 series before ClOD...

Regarding this sims that are in that list the best WWII sim (my favourite) for me is BoBII.

But my favourite WWII sim (which isn't on the list) is (and probably "by far") B-17II The Mighty Eight! For me it's the best and "only" WWII heavy bomber sim (with "only" I mean dedicated WWII bomber sim and fully realistic WWII bomber sim) with some of the most realistic features ever seen in any WWII sim such as Navigation and Bombsight, awesome campaign that could be played either as bomber crew or bomber commander, crew and squadron management and of course the posibility to manage the crew while airborne in a mission like for example ordering a crewman to heal a fellow injured crewman or ordering a crewman to open the bomb bays or even ordering to manually lower the landing gear in case it had its hydraulics damaged.

My second favourite WWII sim was 1942 Pacific Air War (but I think this is probably "too old" to mention: this is old MS-DOS technology, afterall) and if I exclude 1942 Pacific Air War than I must say that my next favourite sim is European Air War (EAW).

After EAW (in third of fourth, depending) my favourite sim is BoBII which is where I voted.

B 17 was ok. I could never find my parking place when I returned from a mission. I used to kill off the fighters and just fly the bombardment missions with the flack on. ( still didnt make it all the way thru) I do wish they would remake it with better graphics and larger Bomber formations

And with Co-Op multiplayer, specially with players taking diferent roles in the same aircraft/bomber.
That would be my dream come true regarding WWII combat flight sims!

I have to agree on B-17II and Pacific Air War. It would be great to see those with 21st century technology.
B17II had one major turn-off for me, however: the B17 cockpit. Zero visibility with no means to adjust your viewpoint, and the main instruments were only visible in "heads-down" view. This was especially awkward because the fighter cockpits were exceptionally well done in this sim.

PAW was my first combat flight sim for the PC. I remember I had been playing it for weeks before I accidentally stumbled into its Carrier Battle mode, where you had strategic command of the whole fleet, and could jump into any aircraft at any time. It was two games in one!

Among post-2000 games, I find Rowan's/Shockwave's BoB2 to be the sim I keep coming back to. I used to fly IL-2, but that seems but a distant memory now.

Easily BoB 2. It has the best FM, AI, campaign and general immersion of any WW2 sim I've flown.

It's limited in scope, only a few flyables, one theater and it's somewhat dated but, on a qualitative scale, it outstrips it's competitors from the last decade in its present form. I mean you can't beat the sheer detail in BoB, the aircraft, campaign, and the AI are all absolutely superb and the game world is full of wonderful little touches that take you back in time.

Post V.4.11m Il-2 1946 comes a very close second, it's rather more sterile than BoB overall but the new AI and engine tolerances have pushed it out of the twilight between game and sim where was languishing before TD took the reins. It still lacks the complexity of a true sim in many respects, generic and simple engine management and flight models, but this is constantly changing under the auspices of Team Daidelos (further augmented very dedicated and talented modders) who are steering it in a promising direction.

It's only by the tiniest of margins that BoB has it's nose out in front but I think Il-2 will outlive it.

+1 Jimmy.

Best AI, FM and the beauty of seeing masses of aircraft in the air. When you get a 109 on your tail then realize it's an ace level you start to sweat. No AI ww2 sim has done that to me before.

IL2 is the only way to fly!
BadBud
FaceBook: San Diego SimFlite club

Nah...the title may say best...but in the thred it says best OF these...im surprised that CFS3 and COD made the list since they both were/are such a disappointment after all the hoohaa prior to release...just my 2c

CFS 3 have the best looking engine, when tweaked and with custom objects... just look at Over Flanders Fields, NOTHING comes near that. The clouds then... M$ FS was ever the leading one with clouds. It's a pity that only (as i know) OFF used the true potential of the engine, but it's WWI, not WWII.

Best looking... maybe. But the view system was very clumsy (no mouselook, slow panning, awkward zoom) and the map resolution was terrible. Even OFF hasn't been able to work around those.

This was one of the first WWII sims I bought (after MS CFS).

Which reminds me - I should install it on my new PC!

Thanks for keeping the FS alive, Argon - especially the WWI mods!

You are welcome sir! Though I had lots of help in the SDOE community.

Try these links:

http://www.fsww1.com/

http://www.moddb.com/mods/fighter-squadron-world-war-one

http://www.moddb.com/games/fighter-squadron-screamin-demons-over-europe

http://site.openplanesim.com/forums/

The best flight sim at their times...

WWI: Red Baron II 3D

WWII: 1942: The Pacific Air War, European Air War (after patch 1 & 2)

Korea: Mig Ally

Modern: Falcon 3.0, F-15 Strike Eagle III, F/A-18 (Jane's)

IMHO

BE

EAW still rules for me after all these years........
but all the others had different things I truly enjoyed,
always making me wish somebody could roll all the good things
together and make one great sim........

I still fly EAW online and offline and truly appreciate the mods
that are still being done for this sim. I have always kept up with
the mods so I guess it has been easier for me to get it working on
any platform I have had or used.

I agree with another poster thou....I spent many many hours immersed in
PAW.....like 2 games in one.....directing the carrier battle....then being
able to jump into any of the battles.....the view of the ships from an SBD
while dive-bombing was awesome.....the ships evading.....their wakes......
the sounds were excellent too....

EAW was supposed to be the sequel to PAW.....but there was no pacific.
But thanks to our many modders, we can fly SPAW, DAW, SAW, and many other theatres
and planes and terrains...all STILL being modded and upgraded as we speak.

I currently 'try' to mod all the plane sounds so that each plane 'sounds' like the plane
you are flying. I also still have a few EAW videos posted:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2SPo643AQI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpERwJu3wf0

AO

Boy, I hope someone has fixed the roundels on those spits! Yipes...

Supermarine Spitfire Mk IXe
Serial: MH 434. Code CK-D BAF

Belgian AF camo version for European theatres in the
Spit IX slot, based on a photo of the actual aircraft and
a model aircraft (see pics included) owned by Belgian
model enthusiast Renaud Leclercq.

Notes:
This particular aircraft, MH434, was built in 1943 and delivered to 222 Fighter Squadron at Hornchurch where it shot down or damaged four fighters in 3 weeks. Later in the war it saw further action with No. 349 Squadron. The personal aircraft of Henry Lardner-Burke (an 8 kill ace) it flew 74 missions and in total destroyed 5 German fighters. Seeing further combat after the war with the Dutch Air Force in Indonesia, MH 434 served with the Belgian Air Force before coming to the United Kingdom in 1963.

We also have many multiskin planesets with individual markings for each plane in a 16 plane squad.

The spit skin in the video was specifically made for one of our EAW members from Belgium, and there are many, many others.
So I doubt anyone would really give a 'yikes' about a roundel on a spitfire(s) which had many different variants.

AO

Ah, so the skin is a post-war Belgian AF item. I guess I don't feel too
bad about marking it as wrong for WW2 combat. The BAM didn't have any
spits, and no flyable hurris, when it was overrun in 1940, and the free
Belgians flew with RAF 219, so there was no instance when that colour
scheme would have appeared in the war. The BAM was reconstituted in 1946.

My personal favorite WWII flight sim was Aces of the Pacific, by Dynamix...That and the original Red Baron are what hooked me on flight sims as a kid, and have been the standard for me ever since. Sure, maybe the graphics are pretty rough compared to what we have these days, but at their time they were awesome to me. I think the most memorable thing about them for me though is that the campaigns were done so well. Heres hoping one day someone will do the Pacific theater of WWII justice the same way RoF has done for WWI. Until RoF, Red Baron was still the most impressive to me...crappy graphics and all. Aces of the Pacific still holds that place for me when it comes to world war two. I have to say, though, that I am partial to the Pacific theater more so than European. Theyre both interesting, but growing up in a Marine family, and being a Marine myself, I have always been wildly fascinated with all things Pacific. Just my $0.02.

If you go to the Battlelog (EA) website. It looks an awefull lot like they're going to be making a WWII game soon. They have a new wallpaper showing WWII soldiers. I'm guessing...BF4?

IL2 was great, But B17 the mighty eight was and is the all time WW2 flight sim.

Doing all 10 crew positions incluiding the Norton bombsight was off the scale good. Helping a wounded crewmember was and still is a first for any sim -- very realistic hearing the screems and calls for help from the wounded.

+1 CW3SF. The sad part was B-17 II was never able to be seriously modded by the community like Il-2, the CFS series and others were. I was so hoping Shockwave would have re-popped this classic, modding would have probably been very possible then. But still B-17 II has played and looked great on all my rigs, even on my current rig (i7/ATI 5770/Win7).

Nobody playing Wings of Prey?

WoP is not a bad product.. but it is limited.. When I think of a good sim ancd certainly when considering what it the best.. I have to look at more than one or two criteria. Visually Wop blows the socks of off most sims .. I think it even gives DCS a run for it's money in the graphics dept.. especially since it looks so good and uses so little resources.. I had that thing maxed out on my old rig which was similar to CW3SF's and it was great.. but with no mission builder ... NONE what so ever it was for me fdead in the water.. between that and the great support it got..

So when I think of "The best WWII combat sim" I think of many features not necessarily in this order but for me the "best" WWII sim will do all of them decently :

1-Graphics
2-FM/DM
3-AI
4-Scalability
5-Mission builder
6-Plane Set
7-Theater set
8-Sound
9-Online Play
10-Offline play
11-Community
12-Support

Some of the sims mentioned do some things better than IL2 1946 and some not as well.. but overall.. and pound for pound IL2 beats them all hands down. Just compare how many people are still flying any of those other sims on a regular basis and how many fly IL2. The numbers on HL are not what they used to be but they are still there and there are still new people coming to IL2. Some of us may have our favorites.. but if you look at what it takes as an overall package in a good sim.. Nothing beats IL2 to date.. Not even the newer sims that promise better.. but as of this date have not delivered.. That includes War Thunder, Wop, Clod and BoB II.

I agree that there are many factors affecting one's choice, and we all have different emphasis and preferences. I thoroughly enjoy looking at, and flying in WoP, but I hate the time limits on missions, since I want to finish by landing back at base. For overall playability, I would vote for IL-2 and BoB II.

I have to disagree, IMHO it isn't accurate to say any sim is the best based only on MP numbers. The problem is BoB 2 WoV and B-17 2 have no MP, and if they did what would the numbers look like then? So how do you determine how many actually play any of these games? MP is fairly easy but SP is the big unknown. Going by forum postings isn't a solid indicator either since many are repeat posters and many people just don't post in forums at all. I have all three and enjoy all three and am very thankful they all still work on current PC's.

Yeah .. I agree.. WoP is not bad at all even with the wonky MP system that it had.. If it had a mission builder it would have done much better I think even with what some would call it's questionable FMs.



I understand .. and we can agree to slightly disagree... IMO for any WWII sim to be called "best" and it is possible to come up with a "best" if you use an impartial standard like the 12 points I mentioned and as I said.. from my view for a sim to be rated "best" it would have to touch on all 12 of those points to some degree as a starting point..

My favourite WWII sim is not on the list - Battleground Europe or World War II Online. 1/2 scale map of Europe, infantry, tanks, planes and navy are all playable. The world is a persistant 24/7 MMO and it's free to play now. I really can't believe I don't see more of you there! If you haven't tried it, give it a whirl.

It doesn't have all the features and fidelity of some flight sims, but the purely human element combined with the ability to have a direct and influential effect on the campaign make it the most satisfying sim I play.

Edit: I've played CFS, CFS2, CFS3, BobII, IL2, IL2CLOD, and EAW as well. While they are all fun, none of them give me the same sense of satisfaction. Of your list, I have to give it to IL2. Over ten years and still running strong, and even getting better.

IL2. Not dude.

I enjoyed, CFS1,CFS2,EAW,BOB11,WOP,and IL-2, but the best by far for me was IL-2, especially online. BOB WOV could have been more popular if they were able to add aircraft and get multiplayer to work. WOP's time limits, small maps drove my away and made me wonder if there were memory leak issues. I have hopes for WT, to be a decent simulator, but not holding my breath on that one. The best hope was COD, but the development appears to be on the brink of closure. That said there will be alot of third party improvements coming, not to mention some good campaigns, made possible by the game engines scripting and triggers. The genre might not be dead yet. Even BOB WOV has another update coming.

I never tried EAW.. but all the other ones yoy mentioned I did try .. they were all decent.. I will forever be indebted to CFS because that was the one that got me hooked and my first online sim.. but IL2 (and of course I look at IL2 & IL246 as the same thing) has all of the key components that for me make a great sim. I tell ya what.. if Zuti and TD could ever make amends having a working MDS in the stock sim would really make IL2 almost perfect.

I too would love to see a fully functioning MDS in the stock version.


Wheels

Stupid question - what's MDS?

MDS - Moving Dogfight Server

The MDS feature allows you to use a Dogfight feature in a similar fashion to a COOP except if you die you are able to rejoin the mission again without having to wait until it finishes. With the MDS you can also have moving objects other than a players plane in the mission. You are no longer restricted to using stationary objects as your targets or a stationary carrier as your Homebase.

It was added with the v4.10m patch and there is an explanation of its features in the v4.10m documentation that you can download right here at SimHQ.
Patch v4.10 from Daidalos Team Thread: http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3164565/Patch_v4_10_from_Daidalos_Team#Post3164565
(You need to be logged in to download the files)


Wheels

Do I interpret that correctly to mean that currently in IL2 coop missions
there are no AI target aircraft, or do you mean no moving ground
objects?

Now I'm even more confused.
Is v4.10 not regarded as "stock"?

4.l0 patch is oficial version - actually is 4.11.

From Readme:



Actually "1946" is a WWII sim with contend that we will not see in any other in the future...

Sokol1

So then you are saying that
has in fact already happened?

The MDS made a dogfight mission work almost identically to a COOP mission without losing the ability for the player to hit Refly and join the mission again. With the MDS you didn't need to wait for everyone to join a mission either before the host clicked the fly button since if they showed up late they could still join a mission in progress. Something not possible in a COOP mission. In the old version of a dogfight server you could not have a moving object (Chief) on the map. It would not function or IIRC even show up. With the MDS you were able to add Chiefs and flyable AI planes to a dogfight mission instead of having to use Stationary Aircraft and Objects.

A COOP mission allowed and still allows you to have moving objects (Chiefs) and flyable AI planes in the mission. The only thing you can't do in a COOP that you can in a Dogfight mission now is join the mission at anytime. With a COOP you are still limited to having everyone join the mission before the host clicks the Fly button and starts the mission. In a COOP you are also unable to get another plane if you crash the one you are flying.



To my knowledge Zuti and TD are not on working terms making any upgrades to the MDS problematic.


Wheels

Hence my statement it would be great if they could make up or TD could just try to get what they have workung.better but I hear the code is tough to work with.

I got hooked by it too some 20 years ago.

I loved EAW.
So immersive.

Got my first online kill there(on the zone??)against that guy 'ming'who used to post here.

IL-2 killed it of course graphically,but for gameplay it was way behind.


Neil

While I do like polls since it's interesting to see other peoples take on things, but sometimes they can be just too generalized and do not give a very complete picture. When you say "Best WW2 Combat Sim" that's a pretty broad brush stroke. Especially when some of the sims listed for vote are timeframe or event specific. A more interesting take on this poll would be the addition of sub categories like Best BoB sim or Best Bomber sim or Best Pacific Sim. Many of the sims listed for vote could fit into several of those categories (stand alone or modded).

Single-player is where it's at. I loved those sims because the single-player was so good.