From the pics Jason just posted. The SIX GUN DOLPHIN!



Who cares if it takes 15 minutes to do a 360. All you need to do is fly into the middle of a furball, kick it into a spin and mash the trigger buttons. INSTA-WIN!!!

Spoon

Just remember it and all Weapon Mods are a WIP.

Jason

There may NOT be a six gun Dolphin in game!!!!

I hope your happy with yourself Jason. You've just made a grown man cry....



Spoon

Didn't necessarily say that, but just wanted to give a sneek peak. If I don't say WIP and something changes, people get upset. Just SOP.

Jason

Finally something to take on the Gothas and balloons at the same time!

I only see five guns, which in all actuality should be plenty to get the job done.

I see two guns on the upper wing structure with the Aldis gunsight between them, two on the cowling, and one on the lower left wing, where is the sixth one?


Wheels

Should be one further out on the right side nearer to the strut. It is out of picture though.

I trust we are still at least roughly on target for a June launch?

I imagine that you were pretty close to completion when you announced them, at least I hope

I hope it is much more sluggish and slower with all this weaponry... you can't have it all!

That makes it pretty tough to see then.


Wheels

Looks fun!!

Be interesting to see how the added weight changes the Dolphin's handling....

Best wishes.

Exactly - that is what I'm most interested in... (the effects)

I've had this interest for a while:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,10255.0.html

I'm still hoping slightly for a three gun dolphin... might be a good compromise between weight and versatility.

I only count .. four ?
As it should be, this was a modification seen on some archive photos.

The first installations of that kind could be found on BE2s of Home Service, where diagonally guns were mounted to shoot at german airships, from underneath. Later it was used against two seaters being blind at that angle, or to have an advantage in a dogfight - even german pilots fixed MGs at an angle to fire at enemies in tight curves without having to aim with the lateral axis of the plane.

Very nice, looking forward to it

Actually, you're wrong - the twin lewis' were standard from the factory - the "field mod" was the removal of them.

I suspect the performance will not be dramatically impacted with the twin lewis mounts in the cockpit. Pilot's only removed them for safety reasons, not performance issues. The wing-mounts however may be a different story! ....and un-reloadable too....meh...

And here is a photo of the wing mounted lewis guns.

I'll see your Red Tails and raise you a Fly Boys.
Who needs six guns when a single shot to the head from my revolver will do the trick!

My understanding is different - that performance was the reason. Adding any weapon and its ammo to these planes impacted performance, and most pilots didn't think that the angled guns gave enough of an advantage to justify the performance hit.

The wing mounted guns were not really used for the same reason. With no ability to reload the performance hit wasn't worth it.

Still fun against a bomber formation - dive down with four guns blazing and then rake the underside with the two angled guns.

Nevermind, just saw the wing-mounted MGs .. now 6 is a bit .. well .. just wrong.
Then we will have 3 or 4 MGs on the E.IV ? Hmm, fun but unrealistic

Can't reload the ones on the wings. Shoot your wad and hope no one catches you after.

Jason

If performance was that poor - would it have come t like that from fresh production aircraft? Pilot's were worried about getting socked in the face with the Lewis' butt ( they also swiveled slightly?) during hard landings or crashes...It's my understanding that they were removed for increased survivability in a crash/hard landing... and that was pretty much it. Not 100% certain though.




Absolutely - I said it wouldn't be dramatically changed.




...is this just speculation on your part? Many aircraft saw the usefulness of angled gun mounts....as Catfish mentions as well.




I agree with the wing-mounts...anything to get outside that propeller arc eh'? Yeah for only 97 rounds, I don't see the practicality of it either.

There's a very insightful quote in the Windsock guide to the Dolphin which states that pilots did not care for the two overwing Lewis guns not only for crash safety issues, but also because they were very hard to aim. Hence why 87 Squadron moved theirs to the lower wing, where it is also stated in the quote they likely had a minimal impact on performance.

I wonder if that was the first symmetric wing mounted gun?

There's a picture in one of my books somewhere (I just looked but can't find it) of a crashed French Spad S.VII with a lewis mounted on each inter wing strutt. The Spad S.VII was in service to the end of the war, but the mounting of the wing guns most likely predated that of the Dolphins wing guns.

Spoon

BTW, here's the quote in question from Windsock:

Extremely cool...

That sums up my entire combat flight sim career whether it be using guns, bombs or harsh language

That windsock quote is interesting, also the Lewis guns don't look out of place on the lower planes. I can understand why pilots liked it, c of g is quite low also rather than high and unstable, maybe.

96 rounds per gun isn't a small ammount of ammo if you save it for that killer shot.

What, no wingwalking reloader field mod?

Anyway, that's fine, it's like I fight in Il-2. I use the MG's to ensure fire is on target, then I trigger the cannons to hit home.
You should be able to set separate triggers for the Lewis guns, right?



The Jedi Master

That pretty much sums up the early years of my sex life.

Well, in the Dolphin cockpit at least I can understand the difficulty of aiming the angled Lewis'.

However, there are many other accounts of pilots being very effective with pulling down the Foster mounted Lewis on N17's and SE5's and firing into the bellies of 2-seaters and fighters, both surprised and in dogfights. Perhaps the biggest proponent of this tactic being Albert Ball, who has numerous combat reports mentioning just this (below).

Time will tell. Once the full range of the Foster mount is modeled in RoF it will be interesting to see what happens. Just a guess, but I figure there will be just a handful of pilots who will get the nack of it.

I predict having to reload the overwing Lewis will have a PROFOUND effect for Entente pilots. I think there may be quite a few people crying and complaining. I only hope the full rate of fire for the Lewis will be similarly modelled --that thing spat bullets like crazy with no synchronization...

50 yards for convergence? I can shoot and kill from 6x that distance in Rise of Flight. What amateurs!

Exactly Bandy,

While Mr. Hollinghurst seemed to be one of those that didn't get the nack, and considered the upward firing Lewis guns offensivly almost useless, I'm sure Mr. Ball( as well as many virtual ROF pilots) would come to the opposite conclusion.

Needless to say, bottom line is - the Dolphin DID have them, and sure, some pilots perfered not having them -- just as it will be in ROF, the Dolphin WILL have them, yet some virtual pilots will still prefer not having them.

...sounds pretty true to history to me!

I intend on being more like Ball than Hollinghurst. But that's just me. Brush up on your no allowance shooting!

The Luftwaffe found in WW2 that only about a third of pilots could master the Jazz-music upward firing guns irrespective of practice or experience. Most night fighter pilots relied on their forward firing guns. I'm guessing it will probably be the same in ROF.

Spoon

The oppertunities for practice will be much broader in ROF. I can imagine some of the online "heroes" being absolutely killer with these after a hundred or so hours of practicing their aim.