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#3584054 - 06/01/12 10:06 AM
Re: engagement ranges and other tank questions...
[Re: charon2112]
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Junior Member
Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 89
Loc: Massachusetts USA
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Guys, just saying "so what if the site's broken, just get close" is not acceptable. The average engagement in WWII was 800-1200 meters. IFL is supposed to be a somewhat realistiic armor sim, and this is just plain unusable. It's vital to be able to calculate range and having the range dial work. On the Panther it's broken at any range. I dialed in a target on a flat plain 700 meters away, carefully adjusted to 700 meters on the zoomed site, and the round hit the ground about 2/3 of the way there. The T34/76 site seemed to be working pretty well though.
I think this is a bigger problem than some realize. You have to have a working gunsite to engage an enemy, at any range. This isn't just about long shots, it's necessary at any range. It's a little concerning that most engagements happen at 500 meters, I was hoping for a game that would battles at proper ranges.
_________________________
We had nothing comparable.
Major-General F. W. Mellenthin, Chief of Staff of XLVIII Panzer Corps., referring to the T-34 tank.
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#3584096 - 06/01/12 11:05 AM
Re: engagement ranges and other tank questions...
[Re: charon2112]
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Member
Registered: 02/23/11
Posts: 605
Loc: CA, USA
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PzKpw IV seems to be working, haven't gotten out past 1500m yet though. Not sure how the StuG sight works, so can't comment on that.
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#3584117 - 06/01/12 11:35 AM
Re: engagement ranges and other tank questions...
[Re: charon2112]
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Member
Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 1355
Loc: Wolverhampton, UK
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It's ok Charon, just remember if the sights do get fixed and we spot a tank at 1200 meters and dial in the range correctly and take them out with the first round, riemind people if this thread  With your visibility set at a decent range there are plenty if places where you can spot a tank at 1500 meters, and when using the king tiger, how's sights do work quite well, you can hit a moving tank at that range, and not only hit it but destroy it.
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#3584118 - 06/01/12 11:36 AM
Re: engagement ranges and other tank questions...
[Re: charon2112]
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Move, Strike, Protect
Member
Registered: 08/11/07
Posts: 653
Loc: San Diego, CA
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Listen up!Here is a Tip to dial in the " BROKEN" scope of your armor: Shoot at your intended target and see where the round lands. Where the round lands, dial it as zero, or put the top of the triangle on it. It might take a couple of shot or three or four for the novice to finally hit the intended target, and that works just fine, no one will ever (at least at SimHQ) point a finger at you, there is no shame to it, it is a learning process. BTW, this method is part of the Russian doctrine to evaluate where their rounds will land, by shooting one shot with their co-axial as an indication- up to a certain distance, where their rounds would land then make the necessary correction and shoot the big gun for the final touch. Anyone who has shot a rifle (in the real world) with a scope knows how to zero in a scope or a sight, there is no magic involved!... The easy part is that in IF44, people shoot in a vacuum. The same round's behavior is repeated indefinitly. Then since the round behavior is predictable, smile, it is easier. In real life your round's behavior might slightly differ each time and your patience might run short which also happens here!...So I guess, Virtual and Real overlap somewhere! Enjoy the game, that is the only reason you bought it!
_________________________
Fluctuat Nec Mergitur!
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#3584125 - 06/01/12 11:44 AM
Re: engagement ranges and other tank questions...
[Re: charon2112]
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Member
Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 1355
Loc: Wolverhampton, UK
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Yup I know how to do that, and yes i've shot plenty of real guns. We just want the sights fixed that's all. Oh I give up.
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#3584136 - 06/01/12 12:00 PM
Re: engagement ranges and other tank questions...
[Re: charon2112]
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Member
Registered: 04/06/11
Posts: 199
Loc: Sydney, NSW, Australia
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"Its not broken its a feature!"
Hah. Righty-o.
The fact some tanks work better than others means something is wrong.
_________________________
"Rock crushes scissors ... but paper covers rock, and scissors cuts paper! Kif, we have a conundrum." - Zapp Brannigan
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#3584138 - 06/01/12 12:02 PM
Re: engagement ranges and other tank questions...
[Re: Gunnyhighway]
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Junior Member
Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 89
Loc: Massachusetts USA
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Listen up!Here is a Tip to dial in the " BROKEN" scope of your armor: Shoot at your intended target and see where the round lands. Where the round lands, dial it as zero, or put the top of the triangle on it. It might take a couple of shot or three or four for the novice to finally hit the intended target, and that works just fine, no one will ever (at least at SimHQ) point a finger at you, there is no shame to it, it is a learning process. BTW, this method is part of the Russian doctrine to evaluate where their rounds will land, by shooting one shot with their co-axial as an indication- up to a certain distance, where their rounds would land then make the necessary correction and shoot the big gun for the final touch. Anyone who has shot a rifle (in the real world) with a scope knows how to zero in a scope or a sight, there is no magic involved!... The easy part is that in IF44, people shoot in a vacuum. The same round's behavior is repeated indefinitly. Then since the round behavior is predictable, smile, it is easier. In real life your round's behavior might slightly differ each time and your patience might run short which also happens here!...So I guess, Virtual and Real overlap somewhere! Enjoy the game, that is the only reason you bought it! Well in that case, why have any gunsite? Just fire away and hope one hits.  Remember a working gunsite helps to acheive the old armor credo: "Spot first, engage first, hit first..." You want that first round to connect. And I don't realistically expect to engage past 1500 meters, but 1200 would be nice.
_________________________
We had nothing comparable.
Major-General F. W. Mellenthin, Chief of Staff of XLVIII Panzer Corps., referring to the T-34 tank.
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#3584553 - 06/01/12 11:04 PM
Re: engagement ranges and other tank questions...
[Re: charon2112]
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Junior Member
Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 89
Loc: Massachusetts USA
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So I did some non-scientific testing with targets at about 750 and 1400 meters. These were my results:
SU-85 - WAY OFF. Target was auto ranged at 1400 meters, I had to dial in 2400 meters before the rounds hit. something very wrong.
King Tiger - pretty good, a little short at 750 and 1400.
PzIV - beautiful! Nice and accurate at both ranges.
Stug III - very accurate.
IS2 - also beautiful at both ranges. very accurate.
T34/76 - again beautiful. nice and accurate at 750 and 1400.
T34/85 - very good. Not quite as accurate as the 76.
Panther - WAY OFF. just like the SU-85 I had to dial in twice the indicated range.
A separate issue is that the markings on the optics don't seem to be modeled correctly, you can use them to calculate range manually.
_________________________
We had nothing comparable.
Major-General F. W. Mellenthin, Chief of Staff of XLVIII Panzer Corps., referring to the T-34 tank.
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#3584594 - 06/02/12 01:09 AM
Re: engagement ranges and other tank questions...
[Re: charon2112]
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Member
Registered: 02/23/11
Posts: 605
Loc: CA, USA
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Wonder if it is the larger caliber shells trajectory instead of the optics, it seems a lot of the tanks are modelled well (maybe not perfect)? Perhaps certain calibers, I'm not that versed in which guns all the above have (my fav tank of all time is the Pzkfpw III, but I'll play a IV for now).
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#3584597 - 06/02/12 01:12 AM
Re: engagement ranges and other tank questions...
[Re: charon2112]
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Junior Member
Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 89
Loc: Massachusetts USA
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No way. I always use AP shells for these tests. A target reads 1400 meters away and I have to dial in 2400 meters to hit it? And just with two tanks? Somethings very wrong there.
_________________________
We had nothing comparable.
Major-General F. W. Mellenthin, Chief of Staff of XLVIII Panzer Corps., referring to the T-34 tank.
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