Sure, don't get me wrong. I just believe there is a middle ground which lets the user choose the degree to which they want to be penalised for not flying 'full real'.
The Desastersoft approach is to penalise players who don't fly full real by awarding them fewer points per kill (or requiring them to score more kills to get the same career points), than those who do fly full real.
Desastersoft argues that this is more 'fair'...why should you get the same points for a kill if you are using external padlock to keep your enemy in sight, rather than in cockpit views?
Fine, but the level of penalty effectively makes the career system irrelevant for non 'full real' flyers, because if you get a 500% penalty on your realism settings (and I am not talking arcade style 'no damage, unlimited ammo' but rather full damage, stalls and spins, map icons, limited ammo, external views), it means instead of needing two kills in a mission, you need 10!! Sorry, but that is just unachievable.
And in my opinion, the realism penalty is pointless when it is offline play! This is offline competition, not online with a leaderboard that garners bragging rights, so the player is only competing against themselves.
I would argue the best approach is to create a career system which is scalable, and encourages players to take on the full real challenge, while allowing them to enjoy the career system to the max, no matter what their preferred realism settings.
The Desastersoft approach is to say unless you fly full real, we are going to penalise you, and make it harder (darn near impossible) for you to be promoted and get medals.
I simply didn't/don't get that.
Sorry, i wont get in that, but your Statement is Wrong Freddy.
You do not have to get 10 Kills in a Mission in that way. Thta is impossible. Kill counts and Promotion Points are NOT counted by Mission. They are "Over All" the Campaign! Thatīs a big difference. Also the Mission Win ability is not up to your choose of Difficult settings. The Penalty ist EVER to the whole Campaign. Not to a Mission.
Please no Roumors.
Cheers Thomas
I stand corrected and duly apologise for my misinterpretation.
However do I still understand it that to win the Wick campaign, instead of 43 kills, a penalty of 500% would mean you need >200 kills to win the campaign?
H
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Looking for reviews, missions, info and campaigns for IL2 Battle of Stalingrad, War Thunder, IL2 Cliffs of Dover, or Battle of Britain II?
Only BoB GameHub has the CoD REDUX campaign, and Single Missions Megapack (50+ missions). Here you can also find the BOBII Whirlybird Missions Megapack.
Sure, don't get me wrong. I just believe there is a middle ground which lets the user choose the degree to which they want to be penalised for not flying 'full real'.
The Desastersoft approach is to penalise players who don't fly full real by awarding them fewer points per kill (or requiring them to score more kills to get the same career points), than those who do fly full real.
Desastersoft argues that this is more 'fair'...why should you get the same points for a kill if you are using external padlock to keep your enemy in sight, rather than in cockpit views?
Fine, but the level of penalty effectively makes the career system irrelevant for non 'full real' flyers, because if you get a 500% penalty on your realism settings (and I am not talking arcade style 'no damage, unlimited ammo' but rather full damage, stalls and spins, map icons, limited ammo, external views), it means instead of needing two kills in a mission, you need 10!! Sorry, but that is just unachievable.
And in my opinion, the realism penalty is pointless when it is offline play! This is offline competition, not online with a leaderboard that garners bragging rights, so the player is only competing against themselves.
I would argue the best approach is to create a career system which is scalable, and encourages players to take on the full real challenge, while allowing them to enjoy the career system to the max, no matter what their preferred realism settings.
The Desastersoft approach is to say unless you fly full real, we are going to penalise you, and make it harder (darn near impossible) for you to be promoted and get medals.
I simply didn't/don't get that.
Sorry, i wont get in that, but your Statement is Wrong Freddy.
You do not have to get 10 Kills in a Mission in that way. Thta is impossible. Kill counts and Promotion Points are NOT counted by Mission. They are "Over All" the Campaign! Thatīs a big difference. Also the Mission Win ability is not up to your choose of Difficult settings. The Penalty ist EVER to the whole Campaign. Not to a Mission.
Please no Roumors.
Cheers Thomas
I stand corrected and duly apologise for my misinterpretation.
However do I still understand it that to win the Wick campaign, instead of 43 kills, a penalty of 500% would mean you need >200 kills to win the campaign?
H
Freddy, i do really not know who told you that. We ever talked about Medals and Promotion, not winning Options. 43 is 43. If you have in Full Real Iron Cross, you have to kill 5 Enemys. With 500% Iron Cross at 25 because of Arcade Gaming. Thats all.
thanks for the clarification. you have just confirmed that at full real settings, an iron cross requires 5 kills, but at what you call arcade settings, it requires 25.
that is exactly what i pointed to in my review, and which in my opinion, reduces the attractiveness of the career and medals system for anyone except full realism simmers.
yes, the career system still works, but the penalty is so high it is not attractive to players who do not fly full realism. 25 kills for an iron cross is simply unachievable by most casual simmers, and those are the ones using lower realism settings.
i fully recognise your hard core philosophy and your right to optimise the game for players who enjoy full real simulation play. it is your product, and your right to leave money on the table by not opening your career system to be accessable or attractive also to those you call arcade players.
but there are many who do not fly full realism as you define it, and therefore i highlighted this element of your career system as a possible concern for those players. i still think it is a valid point to make.
_________________________
Looking for reviews, missions, info and campaigns for IL2 Battle of Stalingrad, War Thunder, IL2 Cliffs of Dover, or Battle of Britain II?
Only BoB GameHub has the CoD REDUX campaign, and Single Missions Megapack (50+ missions). Here you can also find the BOBII Whirlybird Missions Megapack.
Registered: 12/18/02
Posts: 14790
Loc: Brisbane OZ
It is a valid point Heinkill
The full real approach is just simply not a fun way to play offline. I do play with most full real settings but i always leave my camera views open as i like to take outside screenshots, so because of that i will incur a penalty ? makes little sense. If there was a way they could make a novice, intermediate and full real campaign then that would be a better option. But having to despatch 25 for the Knights Cross because of some unticked personal preference options seems extremely harsh.
That aside it looks a brilliant bit of kit and something that CloD was sorely lacking.
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My il2 page Seelowe Campaign Cliffs of Dover page CloD
My character somehow got all twisted up. I was playing the mission where you have to infiltrate the Golden Glow Estate and do multiple things. When I was out burning beehives and fighting I just eventually ran away to view my success from a distance. I first noticed it when I squated down on a tree trunk.Coot..the squatter../simHQ/2011
But remember, awards are not the goal of the campaign, successfully completing missions, and surviving are. Microsoft has done a terrible thing with the proliferation of X-box Achievements throughout the gaming industry.
But remember, awards are not the goal of the campaign, successfully completing missions, and surviving are. Microsoft has done a terrible thing with the proliferation of X-box Achievements throughout the gaming industry.
Exactly... I haven't got more than ten missions into the Wick campaign in two attempts so far because I died (crashed on landing with damage, and spun in at low alt during a dogfight) so medals are the last thing on my mind so far! Surviving would be reward enough!
_________________________
Looking for reviews, missions, info and campaigns for IL2 Battle of Stalingrad, War Thunder, IL2 Cliffs of Dover, or Battle of Britain II?
Only BoB GameHub has the CoD REDUX campaign, and Single Missions Megapack (50+ missions). Here you can also find the BOBII Whirlybird Missions Megapack.
Registered: 12/18/02
Posts: 14790
Loc: Brisbane OZ
Yes but it would be nice if you survived the whole campaign..maybe only getting 6 kills and thus also the knights cross.
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My il2 page Seelowe Campaign Cliffs of Dover page CloD
My character somehow got all twisted up. I was playing the mission where you have to infiltrate the Golden Glow Estate and do multiple things. When I was out burning beehives and fighting I just eventually ran away to view my success from a distance. I first noticed it when I squated down on a tree trunk.Coot..the squatter../simHQ/2011
Thought I would check out the recent WvsD patch/update and see how the radio commands now work. Made a little video, of a typical Wick vs Dundas mission. You'll see the wonderfully busy airfields, nicely scripted mission, and a little surprise - the mission is ostensiblty to bomb Rye RDF, but...well, as you'll see...the radio commands allow the mission designer to change things up for the player!
Recommend watching full screen HD so you can read the radio text.
This is a very nice recreation of a historical mission by EpG 210 which put a broad span of British radar out of action...for about 24 hours. Mobile stations were up within hours and the RDF masts back on line the next day.
Mini version here, but you won't be able to read...
_________________________
Looking for reviews, missions, info and campaigns for IL2 Battle of Stalingrad, War Thunder, IL2 Cliffs of Dover, or Battle of Britain II?
Only BoB GameHub has the CoD REDUX campaign, and Single Missions Megapack (50+ missions). Here you can also find the BOBII Whirlybird Missions Megapack.
Yes but it would be nice if you survived the whole campaign..maybe only getting 6 kills and thus also the knights cross.
I hate to correct you, but even full real, you would not qualify for a Knights Cross with 6 kills. I believe that the lowest score ever required was 20 kills, and that was bumped up later in the war. I kind of agree at 6 kills you should at least have the Iron Cross 2nd class, which at times was rewarded on the first kill, and later awarded on the 2nd.
Still, this is a minor sticking point for an excellent addition to our broken game!
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