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#3580814 - 05/27/12 09:40 AM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Vympel]
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Senior Member
Registered: 12/17/03
Posts: 4314
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Ok, then do you have book title/ISBN please? I dont have a link, I have the book.
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44th VFW
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#3580815 - 05/27/12 09:42 AM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Lieste]
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Senior Member
Registered: 12/17/03
Posts: 4314
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With a real missile in the air, it is typical that the tactical situation will include either or both of self protection jammers (ALQ131 etc) or standoff jammers (EF111 and EA6B ~ though I think? that both of these types are now withdrawn, and I don't know what the current jammer platform is?). There's a replacement for the pod, and a bunch of aircraft have internal jammers. The F-18G currently does the EA-6B's job. I don't know what replaced the EF-111, but right now anything with an AESA radar can probably rain on a SAM's parade.
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44th VFW
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#3580818 - 05/27/12 09:47 AM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
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Senior Member
Registered: 12/17/03
Posts: 4314
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Unless you can show me where the USAF suddenly stopped flying, operating or producing or planning stealth fighters, that statement is pretty much a fairy tale. Rather, when all you get in a 2-month bombing campaign is a couple of planes shot down, makes it sound more like SAMs are heavily over-estimated. Although, the Serbs were clever people - by doing what they did they kept their SAMs operational in order to cover their army should there have been a ground invasion. USAF over self-confidence in Stealth technology, till 1999. This isn't the first time or the last time an aircraft is shot down due to lack of EW support. There is a good deal of examples since '91 at least, and probably earlier than that as well. And once more, the SAMs were proven to be nothing but speed-bumps. They let to fly the four Vega plane into Serbia, without any support. No F-15C, no F-16CJ, no EA-6B, because of weather reasons... ... those poor Falcons might have been rusted.  Yeah, except they didn't. All the US pilots had to do was call 'Magnum' in the clear and the SAM operators would tuck their tails between their legs and hide. Without Weasel threat, the SAM's could operate freely...
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44th VFW
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#3580849 - 05/27/12 10:40 AM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Lieste]
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Egyptian Mau
Hotshot
Registered: 08/08/00
Posts: 8145
Loc: Somewhere....over the Rainbow
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I had that this morning... try copying the link into the address bar then editing http: to https: It worked. I truly love the documentation. If you bought a book with all this it would be tremendously expensive. Also, guys-I can see that the discussion regarding the combat effectiveness of defensive missiles is one that's causing some emotion on both sides. Let's keep the debate civil and refrain from calling the opinions of others "fairy tales" or claiming that the other side's pilots are cowards. Thanks.
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Miao, Cat
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#3580866 - 05/27/12 11:02 AM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Cat]
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Member
Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 1711
Loc: Hungary, Europe
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I had that this morning... try copying the link into the address bar then editing http: to https: It worked. I truly love the documentation. If you bought a book with all this it would be tremendously expensive. Also, guys-I can see that the discussion regarding the combat effectiveness of defensive missiles is one that's causing some emotion on both sides. Let's keep the debate civil and refrain from calling the opinions of others "fairy tales" or claiming that the other side's pilots are cowards. Thanks. Lets behave like professionals do in Peace...    ... and concentrate on the SAMSIM!
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Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
While Fighter Pilots made movies, SAM Officers made History.
(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
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#3580910 - 05/27/12 12:00 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: GrayGhost]
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Junior Member
Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 48
Loc: Jugoslavija
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Ok, then do you have book title/ISBN please? Yes, ISBN: 978-86-87833-00-5 Title: Smena It is a war journal written by Lieutenant colonel Djordje S. Anicic.
Edited by Vympel (05/28/12 08:27 AM)
Edit Reason: Edited the name...
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#3580913 - 05/27/12 12:04 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
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Member
Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 1711
Loc: Hungary, Europe
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Adding the possibility to launch the V-880N 5V28N (Gammon) Nuclear tipped SAM Missile, for the S-200VE Vega-E (SA-5B Gammon) system. The 25kt TA-18 warhead has 60% more destructive power than the V-760 15D (Guideline Mod.4) Nuclear tipped SAM Missile, available for the S-75M3 Volhov (SA-2E Guideline) system...  ... and a bit larger than the conventional warhead at the left.  Nice reading here: http://infowsparcie.net/wria/o_autorze/pdf/pzr_s_200_w_880n.pdf
Edited by Hpasp (05/27/12 12:11 PM)
_________________________
Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
While Fighter Pilots made movies, SAM Officers made History.
(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
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#3580916 - 05/27/12 12:06 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: piston79]
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Member
Registered: 01/12/12
Posts: 169
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[b]today video ! dear grayghost i think tor can destroy fighter with hardly manuevering !  i love it I believe "Thor" is just a bodyguard of his bigger "colegues" (s-300;400), and his main role is to destroy some airborn weapons, not the aircrafts... In Russia they used "OSA" (SA-8) missiles as targets.  Nope. S-300/400 belongs to Air Defence forces (currently a part of Air Force), while Tor belongs to the Army (ground troops), at least that's how it was in Soviet Union and currently is in Russia. The Tor's primary mission is to protect troops in the field. Each Soviet combat division had 12 Tors (or 16 Osa's) in its Air Defence Regiment. Granted, Army had its own version of S-300, the S-300V, but it was issued at Army, not divisional, level and its mission was to protect troops against ballistic missiles, such as Pershing-1. Air Defence forces saw (and see) Pantsyr as a companion to S-300, although it is likely to be used to defend targets other than S-300 batteries. But due to poor performance of Pantsyr, Almaz-Antey now develops a Morfei SAM, that I mentioned a few pages above, for this and other purposes.
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#3580925 - 05/27/12 12:13 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: GrayGhost]
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Member
Registered: 01/12/12
Posts: 169
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Unless you can show me where the USAF suddenly stopped flying, operating or producing or planning stealth fighters, that statement is pretty much a fairy tale. Rather, when all you get in a 2-month bombing campaign is a couple of planes shot down, makes it sound more like SAMs are heavily over-estimated. Although, the Serbs were clever people - by doing what they did they kept their SAMs operational in order to cover their army should there have been a ground invasion. USAF over self-confidence in Stealth technology, till 1999. This isn't the first time or the last time an aircraft is shot down due to lack of EW support. There is a good deal of examples since '91 at least, and probably earlier than that as well. And once more, the SAMs were proven to be nothing but speed-bumps. They let to fly the four Vega plane into Serbia, without any support. No F-15C, no F-16CJ, no EA-6B, because of weather reasons... ... those poor Falcons might have been rusted. Yeah, except they didn't. All the US pilots had to do was call 'Magnum' in the clear and the SAM operators would tuck their tails between their legs and hide. Without Weasel threat, the SAM's could operate freely... But you must admit that U. S. NEVER encountered any 3rd generation SAMs in combat. S-300, Tor-M1, Buk-M2. Neither they encountered an integrated air defence network. I wonder if SAMs are so inefficient, why both U. S. and Israelis made such an enormous effort to prevent a shipment of Russian S-300 to Iran?
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#3580934 - 05/27/12 12:22 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Lonewolf357]
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Member
Registered: 09/02/11
Posts: 872
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Thanks for the correction Lonewolf357, you are right! My point is that this system engaged some small-sized targets like missiles... But due to poor performance of Pantsyr Could you be more specific? Thanks!
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