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#3587917 - 06/07/12 03:40 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
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Member
Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 1708
Loc: Hungary, Europe
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Just a nasty comment about "Speed Bumps"... I heard about a fighter pilot, who evaded a Dvina (SA-2F) missile above Vietnam... ... I heard about a fighter pilot, who evaded a Neva (SA-3B) missile above the Sinai... ... I heard about a fighter pilot, who evaded a Vega (SA-5B) missile above the Gulf of Sidra... ... but... I never heard about a fighter pilot, who could successfully avoid a mistakenly fired Patriot Missile, and... ... never heard about a one, who faced the S-300P in real war. 
Edited by Hpasp (06/07/12 03:41 PM)
_________________________
Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
While Fighter Pilots made movies, SAM Officers made History.
(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
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#3587950 - 06/07/12 04:55 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
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Member
Registered: 09/02/11
Posts: 868
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Bit too much safety stamp, for my taste... BR.I-II-III is OK to be blocked in peacetime... ...but blocking the RPK-ANT switch, and the BR button is seems to be a little over cautious approach to me!!!  I was told that RPK-ANT is sealed because of radiosilence... Probably "BR" is about that also, because with it and "75 km" mode on, transmition is on the air too... Just a nasty comment about "Speed Bumps"... Dear Hpasp, don't take so seriouse this "Speed bump" issue... It's just a cocky behaviour of the fly boys...  Personally for me, the succsesfull air defence organization is a mix of SA type missiles and fighters, joined with an efective IADS system... Air power never achieved a victory in a war on it's own alone. If the SAM's were so useless, they never will be developed at all... So, end of story!
Edited by piston79 (06/07/12 05:07 PM)
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#3587988 - 06/07/12 06:42 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
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Senior Member
Registered: 12/17/03
Posts: 4311
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There is very little information about those incidents, however, the engagement distances were quite short, and it is quite probable that all involved aircraft were at cruising rather than combat speed. That's a very poor position to be attacked in - not much you can do in the time given. ... did you hear about the F-16 that stuck a HARM in a Patriot, though? I guess that doesn't -really- count as evasion. I never heard about a fighter pilot, who could successfully avoid a mistakenly fired Patriot Missile, and...
... never heard about a one, who faced the S-300P in real war.
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44th VFW
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#3587989 - 06/07/12 06:43 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: piston79]
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Senior Member
Registered: 12/17/03
Posts: 4311
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Actually it did ... at least twice in history that I am aware of, but the first time SAMs did not exist yet. Air power never achieved a victory in a war on it's own alone. If the SAM's were so useless, they never will be developed at all... So, end of story!
_________________________
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44th VFW
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#3588127 - 06/08/12 12:44 AM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: GrayGhost]
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Member
Registered: 09/02/11
Posts: 868
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Hi,
Which wars you have in mind?
Could you be more specific?
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#3588185 - 06/08/12 03:31 AM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: GrayGhost]
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Member
Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 1708
Loc: Hungary, Europe
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There is very little information about those incidents, however, the engagement distances were quite short, and it is quite probable that all involved aircraft were at cruising rather than combat speed. That's a very poor position to be attacked in - not much you can do in the time given.
... did you hear about the F-16 that stuck a HARM in a Patriot, though? I guess that doesn't -really- count as evasion.
Good argument , probably the AN/TLQ-32 was not operated... SAM's always performed better than MiGs. SAM's were able to shot down U2's, B-52's, F-16's, F-117, while these plane types were never shot down by a MiG.
Edited by Hpasp (06/08/12 03:35 AM)
_________________________
Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
While Fighter Pilots made movies, SAM Officers made History.
(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
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#3588192 - 06/08/12 03:53 AM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
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Member
Registered: 04/27/12
Posts: 237
Loc: Czech Republic
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Hi Hpasp, please look at this AAR - hit by a nuclear blast and immediatelly folowing killed by a nuclear blast without time and description. 9:20am 15th of April, 1986.
SR-71 bomb damage assessment flight.
S-75M3 Volkhov
00:01:18, V-760 15D Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 110km
Target azimuth: 71°
Target elevation: 11°
Target altitude: 22,3km
SNR mode: Wide Beam - 150km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)
00:01:23, V-760 15D Missile launched on Channel-2
Target distance: 106km
Target azimuth: 71°
Target elevation: 12°
Target altitude: 22,3km
SNR mode: Wide Beam - 150km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)
00:01:32, V-760 15D Missile launched on Channel-3
Target distance: 98km
Target azimuth: 69°
Target elevation: 13°
Target altitude: 22,3km
SNR mode: Wide Beam - 150km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)
00:02:30, V-760 15D Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 54km
Target azimuth: 50°
Target elevation: 24°
Target altitude: 22,3km
SNR mode: Wide Beam - 150km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)
00:02:35, Missile exploded on Channel-2
SR-71 Tromp-30 hit by nuclear blast. (distance from epicenter: 2716m)
killed by nuclear blast. (distance from epicenter: 3724m)
00:02:49, V-760 15D Missile launched on Channel-2
Target distance: 46km
Target azimuth: 34°
Target elevation: 28°
Target altitude: 22,3km
SNR mode: Wide Beam - 150km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)
00:02:55, V-760 15D Missile launched on Channel-3
Target distance: 44km
Target azimuth: 28°
Target elevation: 30°
Target altitude: 22,3km
SNR mode: Wide Beam - 150km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)
00:03:21, Missile exploded on Channel-1
00:03:37, Missile exploded on Channel-2
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#3588194 - 06/08/12 03:55 AM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
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Member
Registered: 04/27/12
Posts: 237
Loc: Czech Republic
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After looking at 3DAAR it is clear. The killed thing without a description is my second missile :-)
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#3588203 - 06/08/12 04:20 AM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
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Junior Member
Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 48
Loc: Jugoslavija
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I think of SAMs more of a wall (if used properly) than a speed bump.
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#3588209 - 06/08/12 04:58 AM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
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Member
Registered: 01/12/12
Posts: 169
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Good argument , probably the AN/TLQ-32 was not operated... Hmm, my 2004 Jane's radars and electronic warfare systems says following: "The AN/TLQ-32 ARM-D was selected by the US Air Force (USAF) in March 1989, with a then year US$11.6 million contract for two `first article' examples being awarded during the following September. Testing of these began in May 1992 and full-scale production of 14 systems to protect USAF AN/TPS-75 radars began in December 1992. During 1996, additional TLQ-32 systems were delivered to the US Air National Guard" Neither USAF nor Air National Guard operates the Patriots, Army does...
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