I tweaked the HR CR-32 into a CR-42 for the new DAW scenario. In the process I used my "empty F" process to get rid of almost all the rendering sequence problems that plague most of the bi-planes:



The only area that still has a problem is when viewing the plane from directly underneath. The "N" struts show through the bottom of the plane. Pretty minor compared to the R/S mess of the original model.

I started with the "empty F" file from the HR Douglas SBD that I built for SPAW. Once I split up the new CR-42 model into the same components as the SBD about 75% of the problems were solved.

However, there was some rebuilding necessary because of the way the original CR-32 was fashioned. I had to build the landing gear onto the wing 3dz's where it should have been all along. Also, I broke the top wing in two and added it to the existing lower wing file instead of having one separate wing spanning wingtip to wingtip.

I also had to add a small section of top wing to the fuselage.

As I wrote in the title, this method could be used to upgrade any of the WWI models that have serious R/S issues. If any WWI modders would like to try it I'll upload the new CR-42 to Talley-ho so you can see exactly how it's done.

Tumas wwi files already uses all the 3dzs anyway...the problem is he used a different system then any of his preceeding work, so i don't think they can be compared that way???

I'd have to look at the models but as I said, I only had to get a working R/S for the one wing. Then I added the landing gear. I then used the mirror program to make the opposite wing.

I DID have to re-name the various bits as the tail was the E.3dz and the wings were A and B.3dz which is opposite top what we usually do. Renaming the bits brought the model into our accepted naming norm.

The model is posted on my page at Talley-ho so you can see how it's done.

Hi Ray.

A lot of the WWI models have lots of bits which would never render properly as there are dozens of piggybacks off of one element.

Also Without a good basic knowledge, most people would not be able to take on moving bits of a model from one 3dz to another.

I think you'd have to do a "show me how to" project with screen shots, and instructions on how to do the steps, using 3dz studio, text converters and other tools to make a finished project.

But, I have to say, I don't hold out much hope, as a very few of us model in 3dz despite my best efforts in trying to teach people the basic steps, in building new models.

John,

I was actually quite surprised that I was able to get a rendering solution with the interplane struts between the upper and lower wing as well as the landing gear. The only problem was one colored line guy wire which just would not cooperate. I ended up making a piggyback for that one.

I offered the finished unit mostly so that some other modders might be able to grasp the "empty F" concept which eliminates most, if not all, of the R/S issues between different pieces of the plane.

Of course, the R/S issues related to the individual pieces needs to be dealt with by rebuilding the piece. This turns out not to be as bad as I thought.

We're all glad you take the time to illustrate what you're doing but, as you noted, it hasn't produced any more 3dz modders thus my hesitation to go through the effort to produce a tutorial.

Your approach is "show them and they will come", my approach is "you only have to ask".

I have tried both ways.

I'm not sure why people are so scared of 3dz's. There is nothing cooler than making something like a building, ship, or aircraft, and seeing it come to life in the game.

One thing is that there are number of programs needed to build or convert a model and each one has it's quirks and limitations.

The biggest problem for me is that when the R/S program won't calculate a good R/S it just keeps running without giving any indication where the problem is. We're forced to make a few elements at a time and then leave the program and run the R/S program to check if everything is still working. VERY TEDIOUS and not conducive to the creative spirits.

But as you say, when you see a creation in the game, used by fellow players, it's pretty satisfying.

Hi Ray.

That's why I wanted Tony to redo some of the tools and fix the outputs. We have a load of tools, which could be made a lot simpler to use, with everything we have learned over the past few years.

The RS program has that bug, but if you have no result in about a second, then just "X" the DOS window, is easy enough to do. The error message does show in the Studio window, although it does take several seconds to load, depending on the size of the file in memory.

Yeah, I know that I have to manually shut down the program, otherwise I'd be sitting here with a hard drive filled with ONE text file.

The pain is that besides having to stop every two or three added elements, you have to open the DOS box, type in the file name, pick up the mouse, put the pointer over the "X", press enter and watch to see if the program calculates. If it doesn't then you quickly have to hit the "X" to close the program.

All that would be barely acceptable IF the program would tell you which element is non-compliant. That's the big problem.

This is why I don't like building from scratch. I'd rather break up an old lo-res plane into pieces and tie it all together with an "empty F" main file.

As long as you remember the basic rules:

In front, and behind.
Left to Right.
Straight lines of elements.
Insert bulkhead elements cutting the model into sections.

You can't go far wrong.

I guess your not using the Studio I use, because it does produce an error report for Non Coplanar elements.

Another tip, if the root element is not 255, then delete the element number shown as the root. I'm not sure why, but I've had it loads of times, and if the root is not 255, it normally won't give you a good result.