You think the real gunners of WWI were all suicidal idiots? - They strapped themselves in for combat, so they wouldn't fall out. They trained hard to be able to defend their plane in turning combat, because, ehhh, their life actually depended on it, you know?

Frey, he was just making a point...

Yes, I was trying to show that there are all sorts of things wrong with the rear gunner but people only want the ones that make it easier.

However, I have read several books where planes hit atmospheric conditions that caused some extreme maneuvers that left the observer/gunner hanging onto his weapon or dangling over the side.

I am more then accepting of things that adversely affect the gunner as long as we can also fix the core problems with the gunner.

This kind of appeal to common sense is not a valid form of argument, especially when dealing with events from 100 years ago during the dawn of aviation. The remark about "training hard" also belies the reality of WW1 air crew training, where boys were thrown into combat with less than 20 hours of flight time.

Anyway, there was a huge discussion about this at the RoF forum. Historical evidence is that gunners were not always strapped in, and some were thrown from the aircraft. One anecdote in particular describes the gunner aiming with one hand and holding onto the aircraft with the other when the aircraft was in a turn.

If this seems crazy, remember that these guys weren't wearing parachutes, and their aircraft were doped with highly flammable resin.

A point Master also brings up is a way to address fixing core game problems. Right now there may not be incentive to do so because there is no income to pay for such things. It makes sense to make a new plane or field mods because they can sell them to pay for the development. But how can they fund the time needed to improve core features of the game? Not only gunners being fixed, but a better interface and squad features etc.
So if it takes some dedicated supporters to help fund this, is that possible?

As far as the guns, there are only two things a new player can do when they first get the demo. Either fly one of the provided fighter planes with the demo, or gun.
A new player will take some time to get good flying the fighters. So they will want to try the other one thing they can do which is gun. Everyone I talked to runs into the same issue with the weird gun control. It doesn't feel realistic at all. If it's going to feel so detached from feeling your are actually controlling the gun, then you might as well add unrealistic accuracy instead and have a better feel of control of the gun itself. This would be less of a turn off to new players and vets as well.

I would also contribute to the development of fixing these core game problems that are being overlooked if that's a possibility.
Maybe it could be funded by selling something like a small custom personalized patch or insignia that you could put on your plane. Something that would also show you are a supporter. I would pay $100 for an approved personalized insignia that I could add to my fuselage for instance.

100 bucks is a way too steep but other than that I think this is a really good idea!
What I would pay 100 bucks for though is a livery editor alà Forza Motorsport 4, basically you just form layers out of squares, circles, triangles etc and create your own logo`s and themes (In this case you can make your own lozenge pattern for example) put them on the vehicle (And the layers are saveable in a reference folder for future use on any other vehicle if you so wish): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0ntfmgbhOY&feature=related
This would completely eliminate the need for any skin approval and anyone with a bit of patience can paint up their aircraft exactly the way they want, and with the colors available to the players decided by what the devs would deem non useable for any sort of super stealth paintjobs there`d be no risk of exploiting the editor.

Oh and ya, gunner needs fixin`! (Doh)

The FM editor would be nice but honestly I think if we started with something more like RedBaron 3D had it would go over better.

Also, 100 bucks for a FM editor would be awesome. One thing you run into though is that if you allow both sides to customize their paints some people will go crazy with it and it will be hard to tell if it was an allied or cp plane. You could lock the insignias on the wings and tail but even that might be too much as you could overload the plane skin.

I think a RB3d editor would be a better choice. Give a bit less customization and still retain the feel for a personalized plane.

I just saw this post in the Screenshots forum:



Improved turret?!? Could this mean they are fixing the lousy turret controls?!?

I think he just means the turret upgrades IE special turret guns.