I've been trying for a couple of days now using the idiots guide (doesn't bode well!) on chapter 12 to do a ramp startup...and it doesn't seem to work.

2 things are immediately noticeable
1. When I get to the second step (I literally mean the second item in the process) - the ALMAZ Voice message system check - it says to press and underneath it says Messag System in operate - but I hear nothing (yep - speakers are on ;-) ) and from that process on, it doesn't sem like I have electrical power at all - for example there's another control you operate and underneath it says Message Lamps Check - and I have no lights anywhere!
2. The keys do not seem to be bound as per the manual - the control in the manual says to press [LSHIFT-P] for Rear Fuel Tank Pumps - but that operates my pitch button - and I am 99.9% sure I have NOT modified any controls - I've hardly played this enough to have an understanding of all the controls and what keys I prefer - I generally never change keys unless it's absolutely essential

So - I don't realy know what I'm doing wrong - or if the manual is wrong...so I'd appreciate someone taking the time to follow the controls as laid out in Chapter 12 of the manual - so I can rule out the manual being wrong and me just being a klutz!

I am admitting here though that I am totally starting at Chapter 12...

Thanks for your time.

It could be a key mapping problem, have you checked the key assignments ?

Also, instead of using the key strokes, do you get the same problem when clicking the actual switches inside the virtual cockpit?

I do get the same "ultimate" problem - I don't seem to have any electrics. No lights when the manual says I should have - no noise testing when the manual says I should have.

The last time I tried I manually activated all the buttons and I asked the ground crew for power and got an acknowledgement - but although I heard the generator - I didn't hear any noises or see any dials moving.

As far as I can tell I am following it to the letter...

I suppose I should ask - I am starting on Chapter 12 - but starting at the Engine Startup bit - should I be following Chapter 12 from the start?

Normaly you don`t need the ground crew to provide you with power. If I where you, I would leave all these lamp checks and system testing behind and just start the engines and so on. Just use a abbreviated start-up sequence. The ground crew make sure you have a fully working Shark everytime.

That's the thing though Eagle Eye - I don't seem to be getting any power using the startup sequence from the manual...nothing. The mention of the lights check etc - are actually in the Engine Startup sequence.

I just cannot seem to start the Shark ona ramp!

So, let me get this straight. You skipped the very first section of the check list which is titled "ENABLE ELECTRICAL POWER AND INTERCOM" and now you're confused as to why you have no electrical power?

Let me start by saying that Chapter 12 is not an idiot's guide to starting a KA-50. It's a very realistic and detailed start-up procedure that requires intricate systems knowledge to complete. For a beginner to just try to skim though it and cherry pick the systems they think they want to start-up is going to create serious problems. The check list is in the order it is in for a reason. Many systems are codependent on others. Starting up a random sequence of systems is going to end in failure to start the helicopter and frustration for the user.

If you're really in such a hurry to start your helicopter that you're willing to skip the entire first half of the check list why don't you just use the "Windows Key + Home" shortcut to auto start the helicopter? Barring that there are approximately an infinite number of videos on youtube demonstrating both abbreviated and full start-up procedures. That would be a good place to start if you just really don't want to read the manual. However, without reading the manual your lack of systems knowledge is going to cripple you in the sim.

BTW, I suggest watching every single video on this page http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=32511
Even if you read the entire manual front to back these videos are very helpful.

It won't do to just go ahead and try to start the APU and the engines without electrical power.

Read through chapter 9, which explains the startup sequence in more detail than the very concise checklists in chapter 12.

If you insist on using the checklists in chapter 12, you will need to start at the very beginning. However, some of the tables there require either external power or running generators, so you might want to postpone these after engine startup (or not do them at all, if you just want to fly).

As to the instrument tests: if you disabled "random failures", you do not have to do all the instrument and gauge checks.

I can't be bothered. Thx Jaximus - for...well for replying if nothing else. And I get it - it's a sim - not a game.

OlafM - that's exactly what I was looking for and thank you very much for the helpful post - and for what it's worth Jaximus - your instruction was on the money too - he just put it nice. And you don't have to worry, I won't be taking up real flying anytime soon - you're all safe

Just a wee bit of info for you - I have extremely bad memory retention - so yeah - I didn't read the manual. My bad.

oh - and thanks for the link - I will watch them.

Well thanks to OlafM and Jaximus I was able to start the machine from cold. For some reason the ABRIS did not fire and the auto pilot functions were not working - maybe I missed a step - so when I took off, I crashed immediately! :-)

But anyway - the experience was - erm, an experience. I think it took close to an hour - most definitely at least 30 mins - and I can't even call it an achievement because not everything was working.

I'll have to maybe look to the quick startup - because I'm not sure I want to spend my limited time in this sim with 1 hour of startup before I fly. I'd much rather learn the weapons employment

We'll see.

Cheers

It takes 3-4 min to start up once you know how.

I don't want to call you a liar - but that seems very optimistic ;-)

The A-10C takes me maybe 5 mins - and that was going back to it with my startup sheet from more than a month away.

Grey Ghost is often wrong

But in this instance he is right. That is about all it takes to get her up and going (once you are used to it)

Just remember that at the moment you are being delivered your aircraft in a pristine condition. There are no failures or fatigue on the aircraft.

Therefore a lot of safety check that you would normally do are not needed as you already know that the airframe and systems are correct.

So all you have to do is fire up apu, then engines and systems, you are good to go.

The first two videos on the link provided by Jaximus were a great help.

The problem with the videos on youtube are it's hit and miss whether the one you select is actually the correct/all the content you need. That's not a criticism of people making the videos - it's just difficult sometime to get the right video...the ones on the link from Jaximus look great

You're a funny guy

But yep - and maybe it's even a little surprising that alignments and all that fun stuff don't take quite as long on the shark.

I -believe- someone was making training missions for BS2 just like the ones in A-10C. You may want to look for those.

Just around the corner...
BS2 Interactive Training missions

Brilliant - thx

You can go from cold bird to flying in about 90 seconds. It's all a matter of timing. The doppler nav will come up about 30 seconds after that, but it's not critical for flight and initializes just fine while in motion. I think the ABRIS may still be warming up, too, but rest of the systems will be up and fine.

Of course, a real Ka-50 would never be started up that quick - the INS takes minutes to align, not instantaneous like in the sim, and no sane pilot would put that stress on the APU and engines. But it could be done in the sim.

Here's an optimized scramble start list I made back in the day. Should still apply to Black Shark 2.

Thanks EinsteinEP - I've actually had a hard drive clean - I'm coming back to simming.

In my early years on the computer (93) I was into simming, be it space, flight or racing and I left the genre and went to strategy wargaming...but I've made the decision that I'm never going to get any pleasure or mileage out of these sims whilst I have other choices...I just don't put the time in.

So last night I cleared 350GB of games off my drive - and I have DCS Black Shark, DCS A-10C a couple of racing and sport games and 2 strategy games.

I will learn this sim!

I can't recall if there's a separate INS unit or if the DNS is essentially the INU.

INS (Inertial Navigation System) is a generic term for whatever tells you where you are with respect to some reference frame (no system uses a truly inertial reference frame, but that's another rant!). Swap "System" for "Unit" and you've got an INU - an equally generic term. Any "strap down" navigation system that uses rate gyros and accelerometers takes some amount of time to "align" to ensure the attitude and position that it reports is as accurate as it can be (or at least, within spec). Flight Gear has a pretty good wiki-style article on INS systems here http://wiki.flightgear.org/Inertial_Navigation_System .

The Ka-50's doppler system (if that's what you're referring to by "DNS") determines the Ka-50's velocity relative to the ground, but would not be sufficient for a complete navigation system. I believe this system's output is used solely by the auto hover system (and the HUD, which reports the measured ground-speed in the upper left).

The Doppler system does the auto hover and ground speed (HUD speed) stuff. It almost sorta kinda works like a computer mouse, looking down and tracking the picture of the ground below. It's only interested in lateral and longitudinal translation.

The INU is the 6-degree accelerometer/gyro set that knows what's happening without any "windows" to the outside world. INUs are so cool because you can turn them on and the fact that they are parked on a rotating planet gives enough acceleration to figure out local "up", north direction, and latitude. Longitude has to be supplied.

In real life both have a warm-up or alignment time. Some minutes on the Doppler system and 15-30 minutes on the INU. In DCS the INU is instant (zero delay) and the Doppler is 3 minutes. If you take off in less than 3 min after turning on the K-041 power you'll notice you don't have a ground speed readout on the HUD and if you try to engage auto-hover some/all of the AP channels so deactivate and blink and the helicopter becomes very exciting very quickly. You can takeoff before the Doppler is ready but be sure not to ask auto-hover of it before it is. Also it needs a "history" so you'll notice even a fully prepared Doppler system will not provide info until some scenery has passed below it.

I think you can fly the Ka-50 without an INU alignment. The stabilization channels should work fine. You won't have gyro heading reference or any PVI-800 navigation functions.