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#3591031 - 06/13/12 06:22 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]
jazjar Online   zombie
Member

Registered: 06/24/11
Posts: 215
Loc: you would look here!
Hmm, but why is it so instantaneous? Can the computers in the jammer process my beam so fast that it can send its own out so fast that I can't even tell the difference on the scope? Will test with linebackers.


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#3591033 - 06/13/12 06:27 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]
jazjar Online   zombie
Member

Registered: 06/24/11
Posts: 215
Loc: you would look here!
Ha, looks like jammers from the 1960 just blare on like a siren all day wink Thank, you, never thought of that idea.

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#3591063 - 06/13/12 08:27 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: jazjar]
GrayGhost Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/17/03
Posts: 4313
Depends on the jammer, I suppose. Ideally you want the jammer to 'respond' within the first few pulses of a threat signal, which happens faster than you can blink an eye. In a game, it isn't entirely unfair to model it as instantaneous.

Originally Posted By: jazjar
Hmm, but why is it so instantaneous? Can the computers in the jammer process my beam so fast that it can send its own out so fast that I can't even tell the difference on the scope? Will test with linebackers.


Edited by GrayGhost (06/13/12 08:28 AM)
_________________________
--
44th VFW

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#3591112 - 06/13/12 09:40 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]
farokh Offline
farokh
Member

Registered: 04/22/12
Posts: 611
Loc: IRAN
hi helo

guys i think i found a somthing in lead 1/2 method guidance sa-4 !

loock az this

Click to reveal..
10:22am 30th of June 1970
First wave, performing reconnaissance of the Cairo air defense system.

Reconnaisance force:
4 RF-4 Orev
4 Mirage-IIICJ

2K11 KRUG-M1


00:02:25, Missile launched
Target distance: 49km
Target azimuth: 16°
Target elevation: 10°
Target altitude: 9.4km
Missile guidance method: 1/2 (Half Lead)


00:03:55, Missile launched
Target distance: 34km
Target azimuth: 30°
Target elevation: 10°
Target altitude: 6km
Missile guidance method: 1/2 (Half Lead)


Total, SNR On Air Time: 4min 39sec


Click to reveal..
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" standalone="no" ?>
<gpx xmlns="http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1">

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Top
#3591119 - 06/13/12 09:53 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]
farokh Offline
farokh
Member

Registered: 04/22/12
Posts: 611
Loc: IRAN
why i cant attaching full of my 3d aar text in here? confused
i copy pase all of in notpad but pasting but no complete banghead


Edited by milang (06/13/12 09:58 AM)

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#3591221 - 06/13/12 01:06 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]
Lonewolf357 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/12/12
Posts: 169
I wonder if each of these green antennas is tuned to its particular narrow frequency range, or they work in parallel? I think I heard the former somewhere...


Top
#3591242 - 06/13/12 01:44 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]
piston79 Online   sleepy
Member

Registered: 09/02/11
Posts: 871
I'll be glad if someone explains how this things work...

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#3591261 - 06/13/12 02:26 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: piston79]
Hpasp Online   grunt
Member

Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 1710
Loc: Hungary, Europe
Originally Posted By: piston79
I'll be glad if someone explains how this things work...


http://www.radartutorial.eu/06.antennas/an17.en.html
KRUG and Vega uses the monopulse method of target tracking.

Instead of mechanically scanning the target like the Dvina/Volhov/Neva...

... they emit only one impulse in a pencil beam. (blue)


They receive the reflected signal with three physically displaced antenna. (red/green/blue)
With simple math, the target precise position can be calculated.
- red antenna received signal phase equals the target delta horizontal direction from the boresight.
- green antenna received signal phase equals the target delta vertical direction from the boresight.
- blue antenna received signal phase equals the target delta direction from the boresight.

am I confusing? dizzy


What you see here are the physically displaced receiver helix antennas.

They receive the incoming impulse (from the SAM), and by calculating the phase difference of the received signal, and knowing the distance of the helixes, they can accurately measure the impulse emitter direction from only one received signal.
Then the head tracking mechanics tries to set the tracking head at a direction, where the received signal phase is the same.

cowboy


Edited by Hpasp (06/13/12 02:29 PM)
_________________________
Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

While Fighter Pilots made movies, SAM Officers made History.
(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
thumbsup

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#3591267 - 06/13/12 02:32 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]
GrayGhost Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/17/03
Posts: 4313
I was wondering about the spiral antennae on the HARM seeker - ie. why do it this way instead of just four simple dipoles. I wonder if the varying width of the antenna helps it capture multiple wavelengths simultaneously, which would certainly help the seeker cope with radars of various wavelengths.

At the same time, my naive understanding of radio mechanics tells me that it would be blind to a bunch of wavelengths because of this as well (but you get a lot of bandwidth to help you deal with actual threat/guidance radars, so it's not all bad).
_________________________
--
44th VFW

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#3591287 - 06/13/12 03:06 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: GrayGhost]
Hpasp Online   grunt
Member

Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 1710
Loc: Hungary, Europe
Originally Posted By: GrayGhost
I was wondering about the spiral antennae on the HARM seeker - ie. why do it this way instead of just four simple dipoles. I wonder if the varying width of the antenna helps it capture multiple wavelengths simultaneously, which would certainly help the seeker cope with radars of various wavelengths.


Correct.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiral_antenna

Originally Posted By: GrayGhost

At the same time, my naive understanding of radio mechanics tells me that it would be blind to a bunch of wavelengths because of this as well (but you get a lot of bandwidth to help you deal with actual threat/guidance radars, so it's not all bad).


Spiral is one of the best choice for frequency and polarization independent, small sized antenna.
Low gain is not an issue in ARM role.
thumbsup
_________________________
Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

While Fighter Pilots made movies, SAM Officers made History.
(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
thumbsup

Top
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