20 Griffon Engined Spitfires .... still in their original crates

It's not nice to tease us like this!

And it looks like a research team think they know where they are ....

Independent:

Experts from Leeds University have linked up with an academic based in Rangoon and believe they have identified the sites where the craft are concealed using sophisticated radar techniques.

Telegraph:

David Cundall, 62, spent 15 years doggedly searching for the Mk II planes, an exercise that involved 12 trips to Burma and cost him more than £130,000.
When he finally managed to locate them in February, he was told Mr Cameron “loved” the project and would intervene to secure their repatriation.
Mr Cundall told the Daily Telegraph: “I’m only a small farmer, I’m not a multi-millionaire and it has been a struggle. It took me more than 15 years but I finally found them.
”Spitfires are beautiful aeroplanes and should not be rotting away in a foreign land. They saved our neck in the Battle of Britain and they should be preserved.”
He said the Spitfires, of which there are only around 35 flying left in the world, were shipped to Burma and then transported by rail to the British RAF base during the war.
“They were just buried there in transport crates,” Mr Cundall said. “They were waxed, wrapped in greased paper and their joints tarred. They will be in near perfect condition.”
The married father of three, an avid plane enthusiast, embarked on his voyage of discovery in 1996 after being told of their existence by a friend who had met some American veterans who described digging a trench for the aircraft during the Allied withdrawal of Burma.
He spent years appealing for information on their whereabouts from eye witnesses, scouring public records and placing advertisements in specialist magazines.
Several early trips to Burma were unsuccessful and were hampered by the political climate.
He eventually met one eyewitness who drew maps and an outline of where the aircraft were buried and took him out to the scene.
“Unfortunately, he got his north, south, east and west muddled up and we were searching at the wrong end of the runway,” he said.
“We also realised that we were not searching deep enough as they had filled in all of these bomb craters which were 20-feet to start with.
“I hired another machine in the UK that went down to 40-feet and after going back surveying the land many times, I eventually found them.
A team from the UK is already in place and is expecting to begin the excavation, estimated to cost around £500,000, imminently. It is being funded by the Chichester-based Boultbee Flight Acadamy.
Mr Cundall said the government had promised him it would be making no claim on the aircraft, of which 21,000 were originally produced, and that he would be entitled to a share in them.
“It’s been a financial nightmare but hopefully I’ll get my money back,” he said.
“I’m hoping the discovery will generate some jobs. They will need to be stripped down and re-riveted but it must be done. My dream is to have a flying squadron at air shows.”

Moggy DCM

Brand new Hurricanes were supposed to be in Russia, after the fall of communism, but nothing was found, other than wrecks.

These aircraft might be like those, just a nice story. Burying aircraft though, was a popular way of disposing of aircraft quickly, at the end of the war, and I'd bet that's more likely. More used scrap Spits, than new boxed ones, but you never know what your going to find in the Jungle.

Nice story though.

Could this be the beginning of just another "Urban Legend"

There is an "Urban Legend" around these parts about the "Last Avro Arrow"

Seems that back in the late 50's when the Canadian Government ordered
the complete destruction (ie: blueprints, jigs, aircraft, everything)
of all the six prototype Avro Arrows.
Inventory records showed that 5 prototypes were accounted for.
However, the assemlbed parts of the sixth aircraft were not included.
As the "legend" goes they were spirited away
and hidden somewhere in rural Canada by those who built it...



Cheers mates ;pilot:
David

There was a similar legend here about the wonderful and similarly politically assassinated TSR-2. When the Harold Wilson government bowed to US pressure and their own anti-military instincts and cancelled the plane and bought that inadequate replacement the F111, they were also obliged by terms of the agreement to scrub out all evidence of the TSR2's existence, right down to the manufacturing jigs and all the prototypes. Legend said one survived.

And it actually did! It is now in the War Museum at Duxford. I go there to worship from time to time.



There seems to be more to this story of the crated spitfires. We shall see.

Moggy DCM

Dunno about that,we flew them quite succesfully
http://www.airforce.gov.au/aircraft/f111.aspx

No contest over the fact that it flew. Just not a serious rival to what the TSR2 would have been.

The RAAF was the only other operator of the F111. The RAF never actually received any Ardvarks, and finally made do with Phantoms and Buccaneers. Meanwhile the British aircraft industry had been near fatally damaged.

Moggy DCM

Thems fightin words son...

More to the story..
http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/Lost_Spitfire_Squadron_206526-1.html

Hope the get everything worked out and the planes really are in good condition.


Wheels

The more I read about this story, the more it sounds like a myth. Last night on TV, one of the men behind this story was saying they are buried 6 meters under the ground. When you think about the size of a Spitfire, in a box, x 20+, that is ONE BIG HOLE you needed to dig in wartime, and cover up to the point where on one would find them.

All seems a bit unlikely to me.

All going pear-shaped ....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/world-war-two/9228910/Its-Spitfires-at-dawn-in-Burma.html

Ah, the power of big bucks, always messes things up. Still, if I was a true Spitfire lover, I'd let the rich nut loose his money on a wild goose chase.

Been there, seen it, done it, just with steam engines.

What a minute! I thought it was 20 Spitfires?
Now the number has risen to 60?
Question....
Why would any number of brand new Spitfires be buried in the ground near the end of the war?
Isn't burning or burying aircraft, an act of desperation, to keep them from falling into enemy hands?
I thought we were winning over there!
For that matter, how could you possibly bury that many aircraft and still keep it a secret?

This does not make any sense.

I think this is nothing more then a new 'Urban Legend'
or a modern day 'Pirate's Treasure' story....
------------------------------------------------------
One last nagging thought...
This story broke during the month of April
Just saying....

Well Skylark.

Hundreds of brand new aircraft were dumped overboard carriers, to stop us from having the planes on the books, at wars end.

I bet the crates story is an invention over time, and if we are now looking for such a large number of planes, they will all be wartime write offs.

I remember a picture of loads of German planes being buried in 45/6. I've often wondered why these aircraft were never dug up?

IANS newswire reporting this today:

http://zeenews.india.com/news/south-asia/36-ww-ii-british-fighters-found-in-myanmar_786286.html

I don't know whether it means there are atually new developments in the story.

FDR mentioned a secret base in Shangra-La. Maybe the planes were flow there.

Area 51

36 Spitfires?
...so the existing ones will lose much of their value.
The preservation condition of the Spits would be interesting...

It looks like this is actually going to happen --- given that the planes are actually in the crates ...

Daily Telegraph

Yep!

http://news.uk.msn.com/world/lost-spitfires-to-be-recovered?cp-documentid=251698392#scptmd

Hold on guys.

Get a grip on reality please.

Burma. Famous for what? Jungle? Jungle weather? Hot and Wet? Wooden Boxes? Soft wood packing cases? Don't last long buried in the ground here, and in very wet soil in a hot Jungle? 60 years buried, you'd be lucky to find nails!

Then you have the aircraft. Roots and corrosion will have damaged everything. They will have to be dug up by archaeologists with trowels, or all you'll have is so much scrap ally, and not worth much.

Time to call Time Team!

Hi Gibbo,

Seems when they found the hoard they sent cameras down first, and peered into some of the crates!!?

Only when they knew they were 'sweet as' did the bargaining begin.

They are not arguing over junk I can assure you!!



Col.

Hi Nate.

Where can we see the video of the inside of these boxes?

I just wonder if this farmer guy, is funding all this work out of his own pocket? It's easy to raise risk money, if thee is a golden pot at the end of the rainbow.

Hi Guys,

This may answer a few questions. An article in the Times newspaper today says that according to research carried out by this David Cundall chap, up to 124 brand new spits - believed to be Griffon engined Mk XIV were left in Burma at the end of the war. It was decided that it was too expensive to ship them home and due to the unstable political situation in the area it was decided it was unsafe to leave them just lying around so they were packed up in the crates they were delivered in from the Castle Bromwich plant -"carefully greased, tarred and wrapped in greaseproof paper" and buried at 5 sites. 2 of these sites are said to have been located with ground radar and remote cameras "inserted into the crates to check the condition. Mr Cundall has turned down backing from one Steve Boultbee Brooks,who is not happy, and after getting an agreement signed with the Burmese Government has found another "unidentified backer" to fund the operation. The government has signed a contract with a local company to begin excavation this month so it all sounds pretty definite. Of course exactly how many spits they may recover and what condition they are in remains to be seen. The potential profit is enormous, particularly if they release them slowly and do not flood the market. Some are to remain in Burma, but it is estimated that in good condition they could fetch between £1.5 and £2.5 million each.The unidentified backer is supposed to have put up half a million pounds and will then buy whatever they find, presumably to sell on later.

Pete

Ask your self this question.

Why would they take so much care with these Spitfires?

At the same time new aircraft were being dumped over the side of carriers, buried, burnt, and cut up all over the world.

I remember a while back, some Spitfires were repatriated from Burma, and there are a few preserved in Burma too, all MkIX's, and were from the Israeli Airforce.

Anyway, what effect will there be on the secondhand price of a Spitfire? Are there enough people in the world who would want to buy one at such a high price, and the afford another few million to restore it?

I remember a guy who bought about 25 T34 tanks, all in working order, in the early 90's. He brought them all to England, and tried to sell them from the dock were they were unloaded from a ship. I think he sold two and scrapped the rest.

If this guy finds these Spits, he would be better off keeping them secret, and only selling one or two a year. 60 in one go would destroy the Spitfire market, and make lots of rich people very angry!

It would be a bit like finding a warehouse full of Aston Martin DB6's.

Well, finding 60 aircraft is one thing. Next is seeing how many can be restored. Maybe 40? So how fast can they be restored to flying conditions? With the care and precision restorations are done, maybe 3 a year? So by 2030 the Spitfire fleet might have doubled. Will that halve the value of the other Spits out there?

Hi JAMF.

They will be known as the rich man's Cessna.

These are Griffon engined later Marks, so may not affect the market for earlier BoB-era Merlin Marks.

Only time will tell - Now a warehouse full of DB6's would be something worth seeing!

Pete

This story just gets wilder and wilder with the passing of time....
and the actual number of buried crated units still seems to be a mystery too....

5 sites.....60 aircraft??????

Wouldn't you have thought, by now, that some veterans, who had 'first-hand' knowledge about this buried
treasure, would have stepped forward and verified this story....they can't all be dead.

Also, if there are investigators on site, digging holes in the ground....where are the pictures?

With an important story such as this wouldn't publications like 'Aeroplane'(UK) or 'Air Classics'(USA)
would be covering this story?

Who is this mysterious backer and why is this taking so long to be verified?

Personally, like you, I want this story to be true.
However, there still are a few holes, not in the ground, but in this story....



just some thoughts while sipping my morning coffee

Cheers mates
David

Well, at least the Warhawk in the desert is real, and there were pics and evidence posted everywhere on it. I smell lots of rats chewing rotten wood in Burma, and the stench of hot air.

Another one of those famous U-Boats full of Nazi Gold perhaps? Or maybe Millions of pounds in a Austrian Lake?? All Famous WWII Myths.

Do you remember of that famous picture of a heap of buried German WWII wrecks in a forest? I think it was published in Flugzug, if that's the name of that German mag.

They were real enough to get digging for, if you could locate the forest! Now how many trees are there in Germany Ralf? 1,000,000,000,000,000?

Here's the latest I could find.

http://www.defencemanagement.com/news_story.asp?id=21177

Seems there some 140+ aircraft (various types) 'known' as crated and buried throughout Burma.

I think when diggin' starts and the aircraft start getting shared out, there will be enough piccies for everyone if it real.

Cheers

Col.

According to this, article from today, the diggin' has already started!!?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/17..._n_1973107.html

Cheers

Col.

Here is the mysterious backer - a Belarussian developer of a tank sim:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/9638613/...s-of-Burma.html

Ah, and now we have the Russians involved? I just hope that poor mad farmer knows, if he don't find those Spitfires, he's likely to get the chop, or Fired, strung up, or suffer a fatal accident.

Now according to Nate, they had started to dig nearly a week ago, and still nothing to report? They should have had one out by now, if they had, had a camera inside a box, they must know where at least one is for sure, and it would make sense to dig that one up first, or maybe that's not logical?

I still smell a scam.

I'm still waiting for proof, but here is a man saying a whole lot of nothing.

Listen to what he says carefully. Are they there or not?

http://www.radioaustralia.net.au/interna...n-burma/1038352

Well it must be true, according to the BBC lunchtime news, they might exist after all.

But, no digging until next year, and now the Spits are supposed to be buried at a former RAF base, which today is a live passenger airport.

Of course, no place name was given, and the number they are looking for is 30, so this ever changing story keeps on changing!

Digging to start Saturday.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/01/...l?utm_hp_ref=uk

Still hoping they find something good.


Wheels

Bangkok Post reports digging commences:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/329634/brits-begin-myanmar-spitfire-search

Hope they find more than an empty hole...


Wheels

Surely do hope, that this is not a 'shaggy dog' story.

I won´t believe until I see - still remember the TITANIC-safe story...
...apostle Thomas is a good friend of mine...

Found a crate ....

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/01/...l?utm_hp_ref=uk

World of Tanks.

Sokol1

Serious now. Sending in the JCBs.

http://www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk/JCB-di...tail/story.html

Guys, this is how ignorent the US press has become. Here is a screen shot of what we see of this topic. This is 48 hours after Moggy's last post
http://images.yuku.com/image/pjpeg/68625d036beee5eb805fa1c7a22c7e6ce8dab59.jpg

Hahahaha! Maybe it's a paranoid Freudian slip from a Boeing employee over the 787 Dreamliner debacle!

Well spotted though!

Spitfires with jets? Never knew this
On the other hand - even a Me 109TL with jets was proposed - included in EAW in Rotton´s Strangebirds collection...

That is too good!

That's just sad...


Wheels

What is sad is that they still have not corrected the error, 3 days and counting

Oh dear.

Archaeologists believe no Spitfires buried in Burma

Archaeologists hunting for World War II Spitfires in Burma believe there are no planes buried at the sites where they have been digging, the BBC understands.

The archaeologists have concluded that evidence does not support the original claim that as many as 124 Spitfires were buried at the end of the war, the BBC's Fergal Keane reports.

Wargaming.net, the firm financing the dig, has also said there are no planes.

But project leader David Cundall says they are looking in the wrong place.

He told the BBC that he still believes Spitfires are buried at Rangoon airport and other sites.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21074699

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/aviation...re-hunters.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jan/18/spitfire-search-burma-draws-blank

Hi Guys,

Oh well, it did seem too good to be true and there were quite a few people saying they were there at the time and have no recollection of these "burials". So what I wonder were the boxes they thought they had seen with their cameras? I suppose I were this Cundal chap I would be clutching at straws now, the alternative being to get very depressed. For his sake I hope he finds a least one, but I am less than optimistic.

Peter

Some other place to dig, perhaps?

http://www.artificialowl.net/search/label/Plane?updated-max=2008-08-06T22:49:00-07:00&max-results=20

http://xpda.com/junkmail/junk155/buriedJets.htm

http://www.cracktwo.com/2012/05/recovery-of-airplane-buried-in-ice.html

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/99752-buried-spitfires/

http://www.couriermail.com.au/questnews/...2-1226204896564

Never underestimate man with a spade and a cause ...

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/loc...am-says-1246086

I think it would be a better investment to salvage the remaining four Lightning colleagues of "Glacier Girl" and the two Flying Fortresses buriied under the Greenland Ice (is becoming thinner afaik )
At least we KNOW for certain where they´re lying...

And-there are numerous plane dumps in the former Reich, filled-in bomb craters etc.
Bf 109V10 e.g. was found in such a crater:

http://www.messerschmitt-bf109.de/web.ph...&flugzeug=8

Not to mention

Buried by a Welsh beach for 60 years, the World War II fighter that has emerged from the seas

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...l#ixzz2JHAR62Aj

Or the

Sonar vessel surveys buried Nazi Dornier 17 plane

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2011-04/13/nazi-bomber

Just to round off, an excellent article on how the myth grew:

http://www.mmtimes.com/index.php/nationa...d-was-born.html

Well Peter, that report certainly blows away the smoke, mirrors, and cobwebs, and reveals the bear facts, and empty boxes.

All far too good to be true!

Finished.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnew...called-off.html

Not quite dead yet!



At least one person is still smoking skunk!

So...whats on the other channels