Ok, I'm thinking about getting a Thrustmaster Warthog but I have some reservations.

I fly IL-2 1946 and IL-2 CoD. I don't fly Jet Sims, so 'realism' isn't a consideration for me.

Several years ago I bought a Thrustmaster Cougar, when it arrived I absolutely loved the Throttle. I spent an entire weekend happily developing the 'perfect' profile for myself. Programming all the buttons and hat switches and axis so that I had it set up perfectly. Then I went to fly. . . and discovered the true meaning of disappointment as the spring tension on the Stick made it absolutely unflyable for me. Fortunately for me, Amazon has a great return policy and they took the Hotas back without question and issued me a full refund, including the cost of shipping.

I then purchased what was my second choice, a full CH setup. Which I have been very happy with so far, except I very much miss the analogue axis that are available.

I'm curious about the spring tension required to move the stick through its full range of motion as it compares to the Cougar and the CH fighterstick.

I have a WH and love it but if I didn't fly DCS A-10C I don't know if I still would have bought one as I wanted the realism and all the switches and buttons where they are in real life.

If I were you I'd look at something else less expensive if you are never going to fly DCS A-10. Never used the Cougar so couldn't tell you if the tension is similar.

No idea about CH, but the WH has a ball-cup design (not sure about the exact term) which means the tension for left-right, up-down, and diagonal is the same since movement causes the cup to move and is "forced" back to center by one spring that pushes UP. Unlike the Cougar which required different force for diagonals as you were fighting two sets of springs, the WH uses the same pressure throughout. On the downside, going from left-to-right or any movement that passes through center, you will feel a "clunk." Best way to describe it is if you rotate a soda can around its perimeter, it's fine and smooth but move it from one side through to the center to the other side, you get a "clunk" as the soda can gets flat on the table.

There are pics of the stick assembly somewhere here on the site or in the internetz as someone was brave enough to take his stick assembly apart, that will give you an idea of how it is built.

Oh and the WH stick is leagues better than the Cougar stick




To be honest, the only downside is the choice of sim... older aircraft don't need all the buttons and switches so in that aspect the WH may be an immersion killer. But should you decide to try out DCS A10C or Falcon 4 BMS, the WH comes in play perfectly.

My $0.02.


EDIT: Here is the SimHQ review of the WH, and shows the stick assembly.
A bunch of pics at Warthog World shows it too.

The Warthog's spring is stiff to be sure...whether it's "unflyable" is in the hand of the beholder.

The biggest problem I would have with a stock Cougar isn't the absolute tension, but the way it changed as you moved the stick due to interference with the rubber boot, along with the "flat spot" as you crossed the X/Y axis.

The Warthog, by contrast, has a completely "linear" feel to its tension.

If you have a physical limitation that made the Cougar's actual tension a problem for you...you'll probably have the same problem with the Warthog - the actual grip is as heavy as the Cougar's, and thus requires a similarly high spring tension. If it was the non-linearity of the Cougar and notchiness across the axes...you'll probably love it.

Also consider that while doable, the Cougar / Warthog really aren't at their best if you're putting them up on a desk and having your arm "pointed upward" to reach. The grips themselves are modeled after F-16 / A-10 controls which means ergonomically your hand should be at about the level of your navel while you're flying it...not your chest/shoulders.

It's not a physical limitation, as in some sort of physical handicap. However, the precision and minute adjustments needed with Prop Sims made it impossible to fly with any level of success and accuracy, typically resulting in stalls and snap rolls, especially as I like to fly the T&B planes and often end a fight close to stall anyway.

Well...not sure what to say then. I haven't flown a lot of prop planes with my WH (A bit of Aces High)...but another guy on our team flies a lot of Aces High with it and loves it.

Granted we're not usually flying on the edge of the envelope, but we are making "precise, minute adjustments" for 40 minutes at a time.

On the one hand, the overall stiffness certainly isn't less than the Cougar...but it is a much more consistent pull. It works well for us, but whether it'll go for you...I dunno.

I'm in the same boat after building a new system and having broken my old Saitek x45. I'm going to get back in the game and mostly fly IL2/COD and some Lomac and Combat Helo (if it ever gets finished :(). But after doing some lurking here, and web-window browsing it seems like: WH's are 4 bills (and most of you think it's overkill if you're not flying an A10, cougars aren't made anymore (so its used ones only, and there's also a possibility of problems with modern PC systems), Saiteks look good but has difficult programming software and break, while the CH hotas (while dependable) have no swag. What I really wish is that CH would modernize their design. So despite the fact that I still can't decide, and I didn't ask the question, I really appreciate the input/discussion.

The WH is worlds away from CH, if that is what you are still flying. It is smooth and consistent (and the clunk that people talk about in the middle I find unnoticeable during normal use) but if you are used to CH long throw/low tension, you might find it quite stiff, at least initially.
If you look at the video comparison in SimHQ review, you might get an idea of Cougar vs WH when they compare the stick recovery.

Personally, I wouldn't have bought WH if I was flying prop sims exclusively. The 'feel' is quite modern and linear as stated above, like I'd expect FLCS to respond to pressure - which is frickin great for Falcon BMS, A-10 and forthcoming DCS F/A-18 plus the button mapping kind of does itself.
Also, it's a buttload of money if you don't need to spend it, and once you've made that purchase it makes other peripherals... such as the MFDs look relatively inexpensive... so you get them from the same shop... just a warning.

Have you considered looking around for a MSFFB2 on ebay? IMHO, the best stick for prop sims ever, and works in Black Shark like it was designed for it.