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#3582901 - 05/30/12 03:27 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
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Junior Member
Registered: 09/11/11
Posts: 88
Loc: baltics
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add some servo motors and ultrasonic rangefinder via microcontroler - fully operational search radar 
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#3582986 - 05/30/12 06:22 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
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farokh
Member
Registered: 04/22/12
Posts: 601
Loc: IRAN
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guys... i have amazing video gift for u  did u try to hit tomahawk with sa-3 in asuluk target until now??? this was my first time for hiting tomahawk with sa-3 ! i hope enjoy this video  no idas used ... only manual tracking of course with hard stress !https://rapidshare.com/files/3770071971/capture-1.mp4
Edited by milang (05/31/12 04:01 AM)
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#3583196 - 05/31/12 05:10 AM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: GrayGhost]
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Member
Registered: 01/12/12
Posts: 169
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^^^^
But it probably has some issues when it comes to useage. In any case, I believe those figures are all for look-up cases in clear weather. This is significant because a look-down situation can drop the detection range by 1/3rd.
Also, there seems to be some sort of difference between detection and tracking that is not well explained, and tracking distances are shorter :/
In addition, IIRC, the IRBIS detects warships at 400km, but not fighters. Just IIRC. I need to find out why I remember something like that, but I'm pretty sure I saw a brochure of it that dispelled the 'detection of aircraft at 400km' deal. But ... memory can fail, so I could be wrong. Of course, these ranges are for "ideal" cases, look-up, head-on, clear weather, no jamming. And yes, Irbis can actually detect a target with RCS of 3 square meters at 350-400 km range. This is clearly stated at manufacturer's web page (sorry, they don't have English version): http://www.niip.ru/index.php?option=com_...26&Itemid=8 It can detect warships, bombers and fighters at the same range, because for this radar, 400 km is also the maximum instrumental range. And I mentioned these numbers primarily for relative comparison of 1970es and 2010's technology. If the S-400's radar uses the same technologies as Irbis, and old S-300 used the same technologies as Zaslon, it means it might have effective range about 3 times greater, than old S-300PS, against a particular type of target, as well as very substantial counter-Stealth capability.
Edited by Lonewolf357 (05/31/12 05:12 AM)
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#3583200 - 05/31/12 05:25 AM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
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Member
Registered: 01/12/12
Posts: 169
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In addition to all mentioned above, quick and dirty estimation, by power output only: If Zaslon, with its average power of 2,5 kW, can detect F-22 at 20-25 km, the 30N6, with its 5 kW of average power, could, theoretically, detect it at some 40-50 km. However, the larger antenna and supposedly more sensitive receiver could give it even greater range. Of course, this is only a guess...
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#3583286 - 05/31/12 09:32 AM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Lonewolf357]
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Member
Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 1701
Loc: Hungary, Europe
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In addition to all mentioned above, quick and dirty estimation, by power output only: If Zaslon, with its average power of 2,5 kW, can detect F-22 at 20-25 km, the 30N6, with its 5 kW of average power, could, theoretically, detect it at some 40-50 km. However, the larger antenna and supposedly more sensitive receiver could give it even greater range. Of course, this is only a guess...  For 2x detection range, you need 16x of power.
_________________________
Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
While Fighter Pilots made movies, SAM Officers made History.
(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
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#3583297 - 05/31/12 09:53 AM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Lonewolf357]
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Senior Member
Registered: 12/17/03
Posts: 4311
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Yep, thanks for the link. I must have been confusing it with something else. I've seen a lot of radar/missile/whatever figures and often they are ... mis-stated. Of course, these ranges are for "ideal" cases, look-up, head-on, clear weather, no jamming. And yes, Irbis can actually detect a target with RCS of 3 square meters at 350-400 km range. This is clearly stated at manufacturer's web page (sorry, they don't have English version): http://www.niip.ru/index.php?option=com_...26&Itemid=8 Actually this is not the case. The IRBIS-E is an /insanely/ powerful radar to mount on an airframe. The cooling requirements must be ... interesting.  In any case, as Hpasp said ... the power relationship to RCS is to the fourth power of the distance, meaning doubling the range you need 16x the power. Just doubling the power gives you a lot less range increase than you think. This leaves stealth aircraft as very dangerous still - they'll still get that AMRAAM or SDB off the rails before or as you are about to detect them in the worst case for them, and best case for you. It can detect warships, bombers and fighters at the same range, because for this radar, 400 km is also the maximum instrumental range. And I mentioned these numbers primarily for relative comparison of 1970es and 2010's technology. If the S-400's radar uses the same technologies as Irbis, and old S-300 used the same technologies as Zaslon, it means it might have effective range about 3 times greater, than old S-300PS, against a particular type of target, as well as very substantial counter-Stealth capability.
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--
44th VFW
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#3583421 - 05/31/12 01:20 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
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Member
Registered: 01/12/12
Posts: 169
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For 2x detection range, you need 16x of power.
Yep... An error in the formula I put into the spreadsheet and therefore faulty calculation...  EDIT: The real figure will be around 25-30 km for 30N6 - not very impressive...
Edited by Lonewolf357 (05/31/12 02:19 PM)
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#3583562 - 05/31/12 03:56 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
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Member
Registered: 09/02/11
Posts: 864
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#3583698 - 05/31/12 07:32 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
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Member
Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 384
Loc: Arafo, Canary Islands, Spain
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We need a jump to 3D..... today DCS present combined operations and see them....   Rudimentary and no properly simulated.... but open to make 3rd Party addons..... ¿DCS: 3rd Party SamSimulator?
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