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#3540890 - 03/18/12 05:24 PM Re: Have we all been sent to Coventry? [Re: BKHZ_Furbs]
robtek Offline
Member

Registered: 06/15/10
Posts: 175
Yep, it is the same engine afaik.

And if CoD doesn't work, the yet to be announced BoM wont work either.

It is the same sim, just a different theater of operations.

So when the devs work on CoD, they also work for BoM, it can't be seperated.

So one could assume with some kind of certainty that the devs are working full time to get CoD running.


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#3540905 - 03/18/12 05:46 PM Re: Have we all been sent to Coventry? [Re: BKHZ_Furbs]
SlipBall Offline
Member

Registered: 05/13/06
Posts: 622
Loc: East Coast U.S.A.
Well the whole thing reminds me of Young Frankenstein, we can see the bright lights at night, but haven't a clue whats going on up there.

Medical Student: Isn't it true that Darwin preserved a piece of vermicelli in a glass case until, by some extrordinary means, it actually began to move with voluntary motion?
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: Are you speaking of the worm or the spaghetti?
[the class laughs]
Medical Student: Why, the worm, sir.
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: Yes, I did read something of that incident when I was a student, but you have to remember that a worm... with very few exceptions... is not a human being.
Medical Student: But wasn't that the whole basis of your grandfather's work? The reanimation of dead tissue?
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: My grandfather was a very sick man.
Medical Student: But as a Fronkensteen, aren't you the least bit curious about it? Doesn't the bringing back to life what was once dead hold any intrigue to you?
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: You are talking about the nonsensical ravings of a lunatic mind! Dead is dead!
Medical Student: But look at what has been done with hearts and kidneys...
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: Hearts and kidneys are tinker toys! I am talking about the central nervous system!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: My fellow scienti...
Audience: Ssssssssssssssss!
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: ...tists - and neurosurgeons, ladies and gentlemen. A few short weeks ago, coming from a background, believe me, as conservative and traditionally grounded in scientific fact as any of you, I began an experiment in, incredulous as it may sound, the reanimation of dead tissue.


Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: Please! Remain in your seats, I beg you! We are not children here, we are scientists! I assure you there is nothing to fear!



Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: Please, I beg you! For safety's sake, don't humiliate him!






Edited by SlipBall (03/18/12 05:56 PM)
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#3540938 - 03/18/12 06:44 PM Re: Have we all been sent to Coventry? [Re: BKHZ_Furbs]
Chivas Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 3200
Loc: B.C. Canada
Originally Posted By: BKHZ_Furbs
Hmmm...agree with pretty much 90% of that Chivas, though like i say this graphics patch is not holding up work on BOM is it? and i assume its using the same engine.


There maybe three or less guys working on the code for the performance patch, any more would probably be counter productive.
There will be quite a few people helping to test the code of each new build for the patch.
There maybe a couple of guys working on the FM.
There maybe a couple of guys working on the AI.
There maybe a guy working on the DM.
There maybe a guy working on the AI Commands.
There maybe a guy working on the Weather.
There maybe a guy or two working on the FMB
There maybe a guy or two working on the human animation.
There maybe a guy working on the SDK.
There maybe a couple of guys working on objects and buildings for the Sequel, that job is basically finished with COD. The community could add more buildings and objects for COD.
There maybe a couple of guys working on the Sequels Map the COD map is basically finished. The community will improve the COD map.
There maybe a guy like BlackSix working on the Sequels Campaigns. Better Campaigns for COD will be done by the community, when the FMB and performance is improved.
This usually how a development works.
The jobs aren't usually interchangeable, people are hired to do a specific tasks, but can help others if qualified.

So no I don't think the work on the Sequel interferes at all with the improvements to COD. As a matter of fact I don't think we will see a Sequel unless the performance/graphics patch is successfull. Sales of the Sequel will only help provide new features that can be used in COD.

I believe the survival of COD rests in only a few hands at the moment. Hopefully alot will be owed by many, too a few people doing the performance/graphic code rewrite. wink


Edited by Chivas (03/18/12 06:48 PM)
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#3540944 - 03/18/12 06:58 PM Re: Have we all been sent to Coventry? [Re: Chivas]
FIScott Offline
Member

Registered: 07/21/09
Posts: 166
Originally Posted By: Chivas
Many people have never understood the development process.

The developer has used the community, to help them research material they needed to develop the sim.

In return the developer lets us know most of the features they are working on, provided WIP screenshots, and some videos thru the very long process. All along stating there were no promises on what could be completed and the no known timeframe of those that could be completed.

All through the process people have continued to ask the question "When". There were far too many variables for them to know when, but there would be pressure from the bean counters as well, so they hazard a few guesses, and got crucified and called "Liars".

Finally after a multitude of setbacks, some self inflicted, some due to circumstance beyond their control, the sim didn't get finished, and the development funds dried up. What do you do then. Cancel the sim and walk away? Everyone loses. The investors lose, the developers lose their jobs, the WW2 aircombat communities lose the only real simulator in development.

Was there a better solution? Maybe a Win Win solution, one where the investors have a chance to get their money back, where the developers keep their jobs, and where its possible the community could eventually have the sim we all want.

Waiting for the sim to be finished before release wasn't an option, the investment money had dried up.

The only possible way for anything good to happen was release what was finished and hope there was enough sales to show the bean counters they hadn't wasted millions of dollars and there was still a chance to get their monies back. Now will there be enough sales to continue development, if they put, "Unfinished" on the box title. Probably not. People would understand the dilemma wouldn't they? Not enough people would. Many people in the community would gladly invest full price for the possibility of the simulator we all want, but again probably not enough monies would be generated to continue development. Its a "Catch 22", but a decision had to be to made. Would the community understand, most would, while others never understood the development process, why would they understand this decision. They new the reviews would be poor and there would be "you promised" spammed thru the forums, but it was the only way the sim could ever be finished.

Did the developer think they would have to rewrite the graphics engine before they could finish the sim, probably not. They assumed they would be able to optimize the existing graphics code. Things were looking good recently when Luthier stated they were close to releasing the performance patch, but reading between lines suggests this latest setback is very serious and could very well put the development out of its misery, but lose their jobs, investors their monies, the community their sim. Hopefully the developer will find the answers to finishing the patch soon. I knew for many years it would be very difficult to put all the features they talked about with playable frame rates, and many features would have to be slowly integrated thru the life of the series, but this performance setback could be the straw the broke the camels back.

This could all be bullcr#p, but probably more logical the most of the conspiracy theories presented.


I agree with a lot of what you are saying here and particularly that they had to release the game when they did due to commercial reasons. What I would say though is that they completely misjudged their key market. If they had offered for purchase an open beta, plus road map to address key features I bet you it would have been very well supported and that they could have sold that beta plus the release version too very successfully. I look in my own squad and it contains people from very different walks of life but it is full of people who are in professions or at the top end of what they do. I would hazard a guess that the same demographic prevails throughout the simming community. What I am saying is that it is not the target audience to whom you want to try and sell a handfull of beans unless you want a serious backlash. That is what they misjudged and that is what has happened.


Edited by FIScott (03/18/12 07:01 PM)

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#3540945 - 03/18/12 07:01 PM Re: Have we all been sent to Coventry? [Re: BKHZ_Furbs]
Ajay Offline
Reverse engineered CloD simmer
Veteran

Registered: 12/18/02
Posts: 14790
Loc: Brisbane OZ
...in further news..the patch has been delayed until it is finished.
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Cliffs of Dover page
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My character somehow got all twisted up. I was playing the mission where you have to infiltrate the Golden Glow Estate and do multiple things. When I was out burning beehives and fighting I just eventually ran away to view my success from a distance. I first noticed it when I squated down on a tree trunk. Coot..the squatter../simHQ/2011

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#3540951 - 03/18/12 07:11 PM Re: Have we all been sent to Coventry? [Re: FIScott]
Chivas Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 3200
Loc: B.C. Canada
Originally Posted By: FIScott
Originally Posted By: Chivas
Many people have never understood the development process.

The developer has used the community, to help them research material they needed to develop the sim.

In return the developer lets us know most of the features they are working on, provided WIP screenshots, and some videos thru the very long process. All along stating there were no promises on what could be completed and the no known timeframe of those that could be completed.

All through the process people have continued to ask the question "When". There were far too many variables for them to know when, but there would be pressure from the bean counters as well, so they hazard a few guesses, and got crucified and called "Liars".

Finally after a multitude of setbacks, some self inflicted, some due to circumstance beyond their control, the sim didn't get finished, and the development funds dried up. What do you do then. Cancel the sim and walk away? Everyone loses. The investors lose, the developers lose their jobs, the WW2 aircombat communities lose the only real simulator in development.

Was there a better solution? Maybe a Win Win solution, one where the investors have a chance to get their money back, where the developers keep their jobs, and where its possible the community could eventually have the sim we all want.

Waiting for the sim to be finished before release wasn't an option, the investment money had dried up.

The only possible way for anything good to happen was release what was finished and hope there was enough sales to show the bean counters they hadn't wasted millions of dollars and there was still a chance to get their monies back. Now will there be enough sales to continue development, if they put, "Unfinished" on the box title. Probably not. People would understand the dilemma wouldn't they? Not enough people would. Many people in the community would gladly invest full price for the possibility of the simulator we all want, but again probably not enough monies would be generated to continue development. Its a "Catch 22", but a decision had to be to made. Would the community understand, most would, while others never understood the development process, why would they understand this decision. They new the reviews would be poor and there would be "you promised" spammed thru the forums, but it was the only way the sim could ever be finished.

Did the developer think they would have to rewrite the graphics engine before they could finish the sim, probably not. They assumed they would be able to optimize the existing graphics code. Things were looking good recently when Luthier stated they were close to releasing the performance patch, but reading between lines suggests this latest setback is very serious and could very well put the development out of its misery, but lose their jobs, investors their monies, the community their sim. Hopefully the developer will find the answers to finishing the patch soon. I knew for many years it would be very difficult to put all the features they talked about with playable frame rates, and many features would have to be slowly integrated thru the life of the series, but this performance setback could be the straw the broke the camels back.

This could all be bullcr#p, but probably more logical the most of the conspiracy theories presented.


I agree with a lot of what you are saying here and particularly that they had to release the game when they did due to commercial reasons. What I would say though is that they completely misjudged their key market. If they had offered for purchase an open beta, plus road map to address key features I bet you it would have been very well supported and that they could have sold that beta plus the release version too very successfully. I look in my own squad and it contains people from very different walks of life but it is full of people who are in professions or at the top end of what they do. I would hazard a guess that the same demographic prevails throughout the simming community. What I am saying is that it is not the target audience to whom you want to try and sell a handfull of beans unless you want a serious backlash. That is what they misjudged and that is what has happened.


I agree that many in the community are older, wiser, and have the means to support that concept, but they would have had to sell the product for atleast two hundered dollars or more. I would have no problem buying at that price, but I'm still not sure it would be enough. most in the community would support a beta program, but I think the community is a small part of an already small genre. I believe the majority of the off the street buyers would be confused at what a beta was and what they were buying enough to let it slide.
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#3540957 - 03/18/12 07:27 PM Re: Have we all been sent to Coventry? [Re: BKHZ_Furbs]
SlipBall Offline
Member

Registered: 05/13/06
Posts: 622
Loc: East Coast U.S.A.
I think when they are ready with BOM, they really should advertise a true minimum system requirement, for playing with medium game settings. Clod street purchaser's with 2gb of ram and a 512 card are blaming the game...no no no, can't be my system LOL


Edited by SlipBall (03/18/12 07:29 PM)
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#3540960 - 03/18/12 07:34 PM Re: Have we all been sent to Coventry? [Re: BKHZ_Furbs]
FIScott Offline
Member

Registered: 07/21/09
Posts: 166
The heyday of sims was at the point where PC ownership was a pretty geeky occupation. Lets face it you were only a few steps up from getting excited at seeing a flashing cursor on your telly. From that loads of keypresses and learning systems was cool.

Its a very different world now and fast food and faster entertainment rule the day. Sims are as niche as classic cars and trying to sell them as anything else is pretty much a waste of time. My 10 year old daughter can run just about any piece of tech you throw at her but if you have to study it to make it work forget it. Ubi want to turn a fast buck, Microsoft seem to be pursuing the same goal with their latest offering but my guess is it will fall on an unreceptive audience for the people who hang around here. Although put out at what was the absolutely worst time imo the combining of ground forces plus a detailed sim on top occured to me to be a really clever way of paying for us to have a bleeding edge sim again.

Again I say its not what they are trying to do that is the problem, it's the way they are going about it.

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#3541002 - 03/18/12 08:58 PM Re: Have we all been sent to Coventry? [Re: BKHZ_Furbs]
commorange Offline
Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 808
Loc: Troy, OH
Originally Posted By: BKHZ_Furbs
I know, i think it should be the new tag line on the box...

IL2 CLIFFS OF DOVER

"sim is absolutely brilliant, except for those who are really short sighted" Robtek.

"its just not finished" Chivas.


"Close this book and never open it again" Oleg hahaha
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#3541033 - 03/18/12 10:13 PM Re: Have we all been sent to Coventry? [Re: BKHZ_Furbs]
Icarus1 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/02/09
Posts: 538
LOL Il2-Ben Dover. Thats about it. Glad I pulled this piece of junk off my computer. You'd have to be pretty gullible to believe there is a patch now. Its obvious they are just stringing everyone along in hopes they buy BoM. Ubi, 1C never again. Sad.
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