I currently have a cockpit laid out like that of the A-10, but I'm not too happy with my ergonomics so I'm thinking of re-doing my pit... and maybe try an F-16 configuration. It won't be 100% accurate and I don't have a small fortune to spend on this so concessions will have to be made. I will hope to get some knobs and switches and buttons set up though, to make things a bit easier, but this is not an uber-project.

I was wondering if anyone here if flying in an F-16 pit too? I am looking for any help/advice you can give regarding layout and panels. I am looking for measurements of the front console, center pedestal, and side consoles, as well as measurements of the center part of the cockpit, namely the dimensions of the ACES seat in relation to the floor. My build will substitute a bucket seat for the ACES seat, but I hope to replicate the ergonomics of the seat-and-floor assembly. I will also stop at the side consoles and will not build the "outer shell" of the F-16. As for the front console, I will not build the center pedestal but I will find a way to mount an ICP... the challenge is here because I plan to have a 22" or bigger LCD monitor on the front panel and have it display the cockpit instruments and maybe other things via Helios.

With the weather here in GBR warming up, and with a week's holiday coming in two weeks, I hope to be able to build my cockpit in that time.

Again, I am looking for any measurements of the side consoles, front console, center pedestal, and ACES seat-to-floor. Any help appreciated.

PS. I know about viperpits.org, I've signed up but still no admin approval (yes, I sent the email too), but from what I understand, people there are SELLING the plans which are apparently CNC'ed. No cash for that, as I'll be building this pit by hand.

Thanks!

I think the most comprehensive online F16 cockpit resource will be http://www.xflight.de/ .
Right now the front page is replaced by an anti-ACTA banner, but the rest of the site seems to be working properly. The site is in German, but if you scroll the left toolbar to the bottom there is an option to switch to English, though not all pages are properly translated.

I found a few pages that shows measurements, but zooming in and could not see the actual numbers. I've emailed the guy though.

try also F16 net is not really simulation oriented but is a gold mine if you need info on modern fighter jets.

Info, yes. Unfortunately I need measurements.

Here is a Sketchup Model I did a while back.
Its unfinished, The model is a mess there are a lot of parts there that were there to help me plan, other parts that were to replace the temporary parts placed on the main build. Dimentions are not acurate, but are aproximate. Also the Center Console and specially the space for the ICP are altered (narrowed) since I was planing to have a single 18,4 inch widescreen monitor to drive all of the front dash (both MFDs RWR DED etc). Its also the reason the Glare shild was taking the shape and size it has. And of course it's inspired by the ABC design, although it has little in common with it. It was also a design made to be very close to the ground.
Anyway thought it might be a good starting point for you if you are tottaly lost for measures.
Also have a look at XFLIGHT.DE I think he only has measurements fot the "Tube" and center console there, and they are not acurate. But if you are going for funccionality and not 1:1 replica it might work for you. Also he has prints of the panels there that I belive are 1:1, you can use those not only to print your panels but also to take good estemates at panel sizing.

Hope this helps and have fun at your project, I really want to go down this road too, but it's a bit impossible at the moment.

I just started learning Sketchup as well. Incidentally, I have found xflight.de and found some of the plans. I've not seen the panel plans, where are they located?

Have you finished this pit build? I do not mind a "low to the ground" approach, but I am particular about being "sat properly" which means the ACES seat has to be right and the dimensions of the panels and parts should be as close to accurate as possible.

You said this are approximate... where did you approximate the measurements from?

Thanks for the help!

For the seat you can use the plans at simpits.org

Unless you are talking about a different site, what I've found is a site that's not been updated since 2010. The other one talks about F-15s...

You could always click on the "Simpits Article Archive" and then click on "How to build your own ACES II Ejection Seat" It's hard to find. It's the 5th entry down after all. *rolls eyes*

You're right, I haven't updated the site since August of 2010, but then again nobody has exactly beaten down my door offering up things to put online...

g.

Was that your work, Gene? Thanks! And no need to roll eyes on me dude, I got your PDF safely tucked away with the rest of my research material.

Hello again ICE,

XFLIGHT has no plans for the panels, it has printouts for the panels wich are 1:1 or very near to, so you can get a good aproximation. Like I said I haven't started that build no, and if I actually get to build something it will be more generic and less F-16. You don't have to take those plans to the letter, and you can easely add height, even though you dint mind the low height aproach, you ,may prefer diferently, I think at the thime I was designing it that way to build on top of a bunk bed (not very high ceiling).
On those plans if you check you'll find that the seat Position and general ergonomics do aproach that of the F-16 closely.
As for the measurements I got them from various sources, a lot from Viperpits.org, sure there are people there selling plans that are extremly acurate, but you can also find a lot of Measurement information on some of the build treads themselfs.
It's a lot of work to browse through them, as most of the treads easily span several dozen pages. But it's there.
I though the sketchup file could be usefull to you if you want an aproximation of the F-16 cockpit ergonomics that are easy to build, but if you want go near to the actual thing you need to do further research. Take the plans on xflight as an example, they are way off the actual thing, but the guy built in the past a perfectly functional and aproximate cockpit (that I would love to have) on those plans. If it's functionality and ergonomics you are after, those general dimentions should not fail you.

PLeeeease update the site (or send me a PM with your sfs control box measures).

Hello Sapper,

Yes, I am finding xflight to be an excellent resource, though one has to do quite a bit of digging. His initial cockpit plans are a bit off, I had to revise them based on further research from viperpits. Unfortunately, seat dimensions are quite rare and no claims to accuracy so I guess I'll have to make-do with very close approximations.

Funny how I am after functionality and ergonomics, but want to be as close to the real thing as possible. I guess I want to know how it is in reality, then "modify" from there.

Ice, download the Aces II construction plans from simpits and then use these drawings:
http://www.geneb.org/acesii/aces-ii-seat.dwg
The DWG file contains some design improvements, but the assembly goes pretty much as Chris's original design.
The F-15 seat pan design that i added is also applicable to A-10 seats (they both use the same edition of the ACES II)

The dimensions on the seat plans are all in millimeters. This is important to know for the next step...

Break the CAD file up so you've got one part per file.

You can then import those cad files into SketchUp to use as parts. Here's a video that illustrates how you can do this:
http://support.google.com/sketchup/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=86648

The gross seat dimensions are pretty accurate, but this is still a "low fidelity" base design - you can add all the greebles you want to improve the way the seat looks.

The smartest way to build this thing would be to find a local shop that's got a CNC router and have them cut the parts for you.

g.

Sorry, were you telling me to build an ACES seat in CAD? I saw the .dwg file and it was just plans for the seat.

If you want an ACES II seat, use the drawing I posted. If you want to see what it would look like after you build it, import the drawing into SketchUp.

g.

Excellent. I guess I'm left with no option but to "build" one then, even if it's just a basic drawing

Any confirmation on the accuracy of those plans? And thanks for bringing to my attention that Sketchup can import .dwg files, I didn't know that!

Ice, the drawings are pretty accurate.
The seat pan changes were taken directly off of a 1/6 scale ACES II seat I have. Unless you're planning on dropping it into a real F-16 cockpit tub, you don't have anything to worry about.

There should be a thread around here somewhere that have very good pics that I took of that model.

g.

Thanks Gene. I'm learning more and more of Sketchup every time I use it, and will put that to good use soon

Right. Spent the last few days madly researching and measuring and learning Sketchup, and I finally have a rough-draft of my planned pit. Constructed mostly of MDF and kiln-dried timber, I hope for it to be quite cheap. I've not laid out the materials yet, but might need two sheets of 18mm and one sheet of 6mm MDF. Anyway, the dark-brown parts are 18mm MDF, the light-brown parts are 6mm MDF, and the pasty-yellow ones are support pieces made of either 50x47mm timber or 38x19mm timber. The silver bits are my computer components, seat, rudder, MFDs.




The pit is built with four main components, the left console, the right console, the center tub, and the monitor mounts. Here is a look with the side console removed. The seat used is an old bucket seat, which means the pit is wider than "real" cockpit.



Here is a look at the side console construction. Very simple but sturdy. Made to resist 3 year olds climbing over...



The back view showing the monitor support.



As this build is designed to be as sturdy as possible, I try to prevent MDF-to-MDF attachments whenever possible. The only place where MDF is secured to another MDF is on the side aux consoles and on the front instrument panel MDF. As these are 6mm boards attaching to an 18mm board, I am not too worried. Here is a look at my structural support allowing MDF-to-timber-to-MDF connections.



The whole thing is designed to be put together using wood screws, that way it is very easy to disassemble for transport or if you want to change a component. I have tried to make things as accurate as possible, for instance, the left aux panel is angled differently from the right aux panel. The front instrument panel is angled the same as in real life. The angle of the chair, the height of the chair from the floor, and the placement of the chair in relation to the side consoles are as close as I can make it based on available pics and measurements. However, like I said, the center tub is wider to accomodate the wider chair, which is about 2" or 2.25" wider than an ACES II seat. To mod this build, you simply have to make a few components in the center tub narrower and adjust the two horizontal monitor mounting MDFs, and you have yourself a narrower cockpit!

With some simple modifications, the side console tops can also be made to flip up with a hinge, and either of the side consoles can be made to swing outward too! However, I prefer a solid pit so I have left these "features" out of the plans for the meantime.

At the moment, I am still deciding how to incorporate an ICP on the front instrument panel, then I will cut off all the excess MDF to expose the second monitor screen.

Comments, suggestions, and criticisms welcome!

Nice work. you can use the lcd that you use for the MFD to shoe the center console also.
I'm currently working on an hybrid configuration with a 23" lcd that has 4 cougar MFDs mounted at the corners using lower ones for Falcon and upper ones for A10, the ones that are not managed by the simulator in use will show a fake MFD graphic with key assigment labels.
F 16/generic Gauges and DED will be shown in the remaining or i the unused MFD as glass cockpit , I think about using aeronautic styled coasters and magnet sold on ebay as gauge bezels.
Maybe you could be interested in a similar configuration.

Nice work. you can use the lcd that you use for the MFD to show the center console also If you nodify the layout slightly.
I'm currently working on an hybrid configuration with a 23" lcd that has 4 cougar MFDs mounted at the corners using lower ones for Falcon and upper ones for A10, the ones that are not managed by the simulator in use will show a fake MFD graphic with key assigment labels.
F 16/generic Gauges and DED will be shown in the remaining or i the unused MFD as glass cockpit , I think about using aeronautic styled coasters and magnet sold on ebay as gauge bezels.

My cockpit will base idea is more or less like the "vista" F-16 variation (including both central and side stick).
Maybe you could be interested in a similar configuration.

If you follow the A-10 display, it is too tall for the F-16. As you can see above, my lower LCD is protruding up from the front instrument panel. IMO, if you put four sets of MFDs on a display, you are just wasting real estate and the MFDs will either be too close/too low or too far/too high. I've decided to go with the F-16 layout as having a center-stick installed all the time is rather awkward when you're not flying, so the F-16's side-stick config was much more comfortable.

As planned, the LCD will show various gauges and instruments in a "glass cockpit" display, though in an unrealistic config. Just the important ones, the ones you need to glance over lots of times and putting that on the LCD will save you having to squint down and zoom in I still have to plan how to carve out the front instrument panel MDF board though, since I plan to install an ICP as well... the less I have to reach for the mouse, the better.

I wonder what you mean about coasters and magnets though?

Ice, I think he means this kind of a product:
Aero Gauges Coasters

A seller on e-bay may certainly be cheaper, but I just did a quick search.

Nice progress on the drawings and plan for construction!
Derek

Nice progress Ice!

g.

I don't think those coasters are anywhere near accurate size-wise. If you want to go that route, find some real-scale gauges, print them off, then stick them to a 6mm MDF board and put it on your cockpit.

Gene, thanks! Any comments?

I'm pretty sure I missed something here. Biggest worry is getting the seat right, or getting the entire seat-eye height-monitor height bits correct.

Doing a "high-fidelity" cockpit isn't something I'd recommend to most folks. It gets expensive very quickly - what you've got going there is a great platform that would serve you well. If you want a bit more realism, you could get a set of those button collars that Thrustmaster sells and put 8" LCD displays behind them.

g.

I'm sorry but what do you mean by "high-fidelity" cockpit?

Theese coasters alerady have rased parts and screws size is not perfect but it gets near to the viperpanel bezels which were supposed to be the correct size and my first choice but the guy seems to be vanished.
I actually find your idea of build a cnc machine (the othe thread) very clever but build one that can work an entire panel it will get huge once completed so is easier for me to cut the bottom of the coasters and glue them on a lexan sheet toghether with the mdfs .

High-Fidelity typically means that you're going after a switch for switch simulation and cockpit dimensions that are exact to the millimeter.

My Me-109F/X project is what I would consider to be a low-fidelity cockpit. The dimensions are within a reasonable ballpark of a real 109F within broad margins but the interior is left open to the builder to outfit as they like. The 109G project posted in this forum would be a high-fidelity cockpit based on the work on the panel alone.

Anything made by Rodger Dodger Aviation is low-fidelity by default.

g.

Ah, I see. I'm going for a low-fidelity approach with my pit, the goal was "easy to build," as I only have a jigsaw and a circular saw at the moment. I am investigating the cost of building a CNC machine... I'm already planning things out in CAD anyway so software-wise it's only a few more steps. The cost of building one though...

I am aiming for a sort of high-fidelity approach with regards to the panels though. When I got the Cougar MFDs, they made "working in the cockpit" so much easier. Have you tried "aiming" for an OSB button with the mouse while using TrackIR? Very difficult! The MFDs changed that, so now I appreciate having real switches. Again, the CNC machine will help with building the panels, although for the electronics side of things, ie which switch/button/toggle to use, what interface to use, and so on, I have totally no clue. But I'm eating this elephant one bite at a time.

Bluedeath, which panels do you want? I'll see if I can find the measurements for you. I think I got a CAD file somewhere....

I need DED and center pedestal gauges but correct proportins re e impotant than dimension since my project is low fidelty by necessity

After a week of building, I finally finished my pit. Here is version 1:


The raw materials, pre-cut!



Assembling the base.



Putting it all together.



My seat mount!



And with the seat on.



And here is version 1 completed and ready for use:






I've been wanting to install a second monitor for gauge and MFD display so I had to work on version 2.



A closer view of the monitors. Top one is 24" and bottom one is 22".

And here is a pic of the pit "at work." Hell yeah!

Very nice. Where did you get your seat?

You have got to be happy with the end product, Ice. Very nice work.
Derek

Not quite finished yet. I am planning to add 3 monitors, two 19" on each side for added peripheral vision, and one monitor at the lower left or right to display checklists, flight plan, PDFs, or TS3 info. I'm also planning to replace that 22" with a different model, as the current one is a different resolution. If I can snag a 1920x1080 res 22" from eBay, I'm all over it.

Lupus, seat was a find on eBay as well. Just your standard adjustable bucket seat.

- Ice,
That's a nice looking pit. Any plan to paint a Warthog skin onto it?

Is the lower screen a touchscreen, too? I take it that's Helios.

WC

Nice work , what are you using to disply gauges and MFDs?

WC, not sure what you mean by a "Warthog skin," but I am planning to paint it the same color as the aircraft (gray?) and have the panels that I will build later as black. The lower screen is not touch screen as a 22" touch screen is damn expensive.

I use a combination of Helios, MFDE, and the built-in cockpit extractor for the second screen. Anything that I put input into (ICP, switches) goes through Helios, some of the displays not availabe in Helios (ie airbrake, fuel gauge, landing gear indicator, etc) is done through the MFDE. The DED, PFL, and MFDs are extracted via the default program built into BMS.

Wow, Ice, your pit looks really nice! Maybe one day I'll have the woodworking skills to build something similar!

I got most of my cuts done by the shop I bought the MDF from. I would've gotten them all for free but as I had them cut 3 sheets of MDF, they charged me £4. Can't blame them, they were cutting for about 20 minutes or so This pit was designed to be easy to assemble and to be modular, but the end product is stable as the side consoles are securely locked to the center assembly. All I needed for building was a jigsaw to cut my support beams (47x50mm kiln-dried wood for the most bit, 19x38mm for the side consoles) and a few angle cuts. As you can see in the pics above, the bits with the RED arrows were the angle cuts - the left and right aux consoles and support, and one at the top which used to support my instrument panel MDF. So that is... 4 angle cuts? And then a few more for my seat mount assembly. That's it!

The green highlighted parts are the support beams I am talking about... just some simple straight cuts on them, not much work to them.

Were you able to extract the MFDs and use Falcon in full screen or you had to use the window (I'm trying to use a truple monitor setup via softth but using the window mode kills the FPS count), what hardware are you using to run the sim?

As you can see in one of the screenies above, I have the top screen as my game screen and the bottom screen displays MFDs, gauges, switches, etc. The game is actually running in windowed mode as a requirement for display (MFD, DED, etc.) extraction but the borders are not shown hence the illusion of still running full screen. FPS are pretty okay, I've not flown demanding missions yet (still in training). Hardware is Win7 64bit, i5 750 (no OC), 8GB DDR3 1600 RAM, HD 6970.

ui have a better card than me (I got a 560ti as primary and a 210 as slave) rest of my system should be ok. Thanks for the data.

Can you repost these? Your original link is broken. Thanks!

And Ice, that looks so great! I'd love to build a smaller version of what you have. Mostly integrating shorter side consoles with my computer desk and a seat. Do you have Sketchup plans?

The xflight plans are wrong anyway so no loss there.

I got my plans here somewhere but I have made some modifications during the build process so the plans are simply a guide. The front assembly for the monitors, for instance, was just way too high, and my seat was way too angled. So my original plans are no good, aside from the side console measurements which are just guesstimates anyway.

So for many years I have thought about building a home cockpit but I know my mechanical / fabrication skills are no where good enough to attempt some of the fabulous designs I have seen on the web. But Ice, this is fantastic and is exactly what I had envisioned for so long - it is simple yet completely functional. I don't need a high-fidelity simulator in terms of exact dimensions but like you I was looking for something that allowed for flexibility and functionality allowing me to avoid the keyboard and mouse as much as possible. You design meets that criteria perfectly and has given me the confidence to finally try to do something of my own. Hopefully I will be able to post my results in the near future.

Thanks again for posting your work - it looks great! If you would be willing to share any of the sketches it would certainly help but if not I'm sure the pics you have here will get me going.

Welcome to SimHQ!

I think you're the 3rd or 4th person to ask me about measurements for my pit, so I guess I should be getting around to them. To the guys who've asked me before, I apologize for the delay. Quite a few things on my plate, and all that excuse. I hope to have something by Friday. I plan to re-do my Google Sketchup design so I can send the file to anyone who's interested and they can see all the measurements and how it all "bolts together" in it's 3D goodness.

This is an easy pit to set up. As I've said before, aside from the Auxiliary panels, all the big cuts were done in the store where I bought the MDF. They charged me £4 simply because of the number of cuts I made them do, but if I "split" the job in two (one per MDF sheet), they might've been free as the shop offers 15 cuts free. However, in my current setup, I've gotten rid of the Aux panels anyway and added a triple-screen setup on the top so that changed the "support" structure on the front console somewhat. Also, I've gotten rid of the chair incline simply because the MDF support was giving way. My chair (base) is now flat and is easier to get into, but the angled setup was way more comfortable and I'll be thinking of some way to revert to that and setup my supports properly.

Hi Ice I tried to send you a pm but couldn't just wondering if you could send me the measurements for your pit if you still have them.
I know it an old thread but thought I'd try my luck. Or if anyone else has them that would be great.

http://SimHQ.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4449278/re-newbie-guide-to-a10c-essentials#Post4449278