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#3538264 - 03/14/12 07:35 AM Trimmed to land
Greybeard Offline
Member

Registered: 05/12/04
Posts: 1269
Loc: Italy
Mybe I'm reinventing the wheel, but would anyway to share how I improved my landing abilities (pretty poor, indeed) lately, increasing elevator trim about 15 "clicks" up before landing. First touch is critical and must be as soft as possible, keeping a/c as long as possible up, like if you would hamper it from touching down, cutting very slowly throttle, since a sharp cutoff would roll a/c upside down.... Curiously, this is much more difficult than in reality, at least with a light aircraft, where you "must" cutoff throttle and that can absorb some shock on landing without jumping like a cricket! smile

I'm speaking of 4.10.1. In 4.11 I think this has been addressed, since I notice much less "ricochet" (that's to say better shock absorbing). Unfortunately, some exaggerated ground effect was added, forcing a/c like FW190 to endless run a few feet over runway, before they touch down.

GB

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#3538373 - 03/14/12 11:44 AM Re: Trimmed to land [Re: Greybeard]
rollnloop. Offline
Member

Registered: 06/24/04
Posts: 1887
Loc: France
I always trim full up during final, it's much easier that way indeed, especially since our joysticks are usually less precise near the stops (but in a real plane it's almost the same, one is less precise when strong force needed), those fighters are usually very nose heavy at slow speed. The other thing is to approach at 1.3 stall speed, if you have trouble with any type of aircraft take it level at 1000m, gear and flaps down, idle power and full trim up, trying to keep altitude as speed comes down. When you feel the first stalling signs, note the speed, push down to recover and once you get 1.3 the stalls speed, increse power to go back level. Do your approach at this 1.3 stall speed, reduce gently power while flaring to get nose higher than horizon and keep it there, then wait. If too high, release the stick almost imperceptibly to limit bounce. If flare was too low and aircraft bounced high (provided gear hasn't collapsed), go around and try again.

It's quite comprehensible you don't have as much torque effect when changing power in a light aircraft, most don't have those fighters' 12ft props !

Happy landings smile

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#3538692 - 03/14/12 09:06 PM Re: Trimmed to land [Re: Greybeard]
Tolwyn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/06/00
Posts: 3860
Loc: WA, United States
Yowza, guys.
I neutralize trim as much as I can on a landing, as in real life.
Grey, my guess is you're coming in too steep, which is typical for most sim pilots. Most sim pilots want to see the entire run way out their cockpit, when really, you need to approach longer and more shallow. Fly the aircraft TO the runway.

Try the notion of flying the aircraft TO the ground, instead of floating the aircraft onto the ground.
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#3538693 - 03/14/12 09:06 PM Re: Trimmed to land [Re: Greybeard]
Tolwyn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/06/00
Posts: 3860
Loc: WA, United States
By the way, I have to say in real life in all the aircraft I fly, it's rare I even touch trim unless I'm flying long distances, and only then to ease fatigue I need to place on myself on the yoke.
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#3538760 - 03/14/12 11:36 PM Re: Trimmed to land [Re: Greybeard]
Nimits Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 4461
Loc: Texas, United States of Americ...
Really? 'Cause in every plane I've flown, GA or otherwise, I'm trimming after any significant pitch/power change.


Edited by Nimits (03/14/12 11:37 PM)

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#3538816 - 03/15/12 03:09 AM Re: Trimmed to land [Re: Nimits]
DGC338 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 51
Loc: Australia
With you Nimits. Make a change, hold, trim. Like that in every aircraft I've flown apart from flying at very low level. Trim nose up so If you release you climb. The only other case where I don't trim is in aero's or in FBW aircraft.
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#3538851 - 03/15/12 06:09 AM Re: Trimmed to land [Re: Greybeard]
Greybeard Offline
Member

Registered: 05/12/04
Posts: 1269
Loc: Italy
rollnloop

I tried and it works! Curiously, it matches exactly what required by FIAT G50bis Pilot's Manual! Do you trim also for take-off?


Tolwyn

I think your way applies more to a carrier landing (land w/o flare), although I confess I tend to stay high and in a steep descent: an habit coming also from many real landings on a short runway, among relatively high obstacles (wires, trees, buildings).
In two years, I too used trim only once, but must be said I flew all short flights.


Nimits, DGC338

That's the right thing to do for long flights, I think, but when you go up for a short time, at low altitude, time spent to balance a/c becomes a significant part of the total and sort of wasting. IIRC, trim should be slightly nose-down, though, otherwise if you release risk stall.

S!
GB

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#3539195 - 03/15/12 03:59 PM Re: Trimmed to land [Re: Greybeard]
Tolwyn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/06/00
Posts: 3860
Loc: WA, United States
Carrier based aircraft have a MUCH more forgiving gear structure. I was literally referring to landing on a good ol' runway.
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#3539197 - 03/15/12 04:02 PM Re: Trimmed to land [Re: Nimits]
Tolwyn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/06/00
Posts: 3860
Loc: WA, United States
Originally Posted By: Nimits
Really? 'Cause in every plane I've flown, GA or otherwise, I'm trimming after any significant pitch/power change.


To fly coordinated or to counteract fatigue, right? But do you trim for landing? What I mean is... actively? Well, I guess any adjustment is trimmed (the aircraft is ALWAYS trimmed, I guess).

In landing though, I don't know about you, but I wouldn't touch my trim wheel. smile
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#3539363 - 03/15/12 10:37 PM Re: Trimmed to land [Re: Greybeard]
Nimits Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 4461
Loc: Texas, United States of Americ...
On a GA aircraft in a VFR pattern, it probably depends on where the trim is. Trim button on the yoke, and I am going to at least get the trim moving in the direction of neutral for a short final configuration/descent slope; if it is a wheel on the floor, maybe not. Granted, its not as if the stick forces on a PA-28 or a C-172 is going to be that hard too handle in any reasonable trim/power/CG configuration, but I feel it is good habit.

On anything faster/heavier, though, I'd definately trim for final, especially on a instrument approach, just like I would trim for slow flight, or any other manuevers. Don't know if that is normal or not, but it is the way I've always done it.

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