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#3534430 - 03/07/12 09:59 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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max2012 Offline
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Before the summer is good, I thought I could at the end of March will have.

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#3534431 - 03/07/12 10:01 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Posts: 123
wasfa Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Dear All,

Next SAMSIM version will have the 3DAAR feature.
(It is already developed, but needs more testing.)


- The 3DAAR feature will be integrated as complete part in SAM Sim. or we must have Google Earth already installed first, to use it ?

- and this feature can be disabled at beginning if we wont to use it ? (like Digital Elevation)

#3534438 - 03/07/12 10:13 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Posts: 123
wasfa Offline
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My last found !




I know you have guess it, RIF: Naval SAM System ! (Naval Brother of S-300)!

#3534446 - 03/07/12 10:19 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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wasfa Offline
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Dear Hpasp!

you haven't show us your stuff of pics yet, or you don't want ?

#3534637 - 03/08/12 05:05 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: wasfa]  
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arkhangelsk Offline
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Originally Posted By: wasfa
I know you have guess it, RIF: Naval SAM System ! (Naval Brother of S-300)!


Does anybody knwo why they didn't just emulate the launch tubes in the land version and instead go for the rotary launcher scheme?

#3534676 - 03/08/12 07:09 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: arkhangelsk]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Hpasp  Offline
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Hungary, Europe
Originally Posted By: arkhangelsk
Originally Posted By: wasfa
I know you have guess it, RIF: Naval SAM System ! (Naval Brother of S-300)!


Does anybody knwo why they didn't just emulate the launch tubes in the land version and instead go for the rotary launcher scheme?


My bet that the rotary scheme consumes the less volume (important for ship design).
4 missiles at the TEL design is limited by the weight against maneuverability.


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3535083 - 03/08/12 09:31 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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piston79 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hpasp

Currently I'm reading...
-----------------------
And learning this...
[


Strange, it is a command guided system (if I got it right - no proximity fuse), but it has almost twice the range of "Volkhov"...How about the aquracy? But with a half tone warhead... wave

#3535124 - 03/08/12 11:16 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Posts: 432
jazjar Offline
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Posts: 432
What's up with Hanoi (first scenario) I can't ever hit one of the B-52s with the SA-2E ( yes, the E variant ). I know it's a fact that I land the missile on target, bacause I turn on the radar during the missiles' flight time. Please help, magic man hpasp wink

#3535332 - 03/09/12 09:23 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: piston79]  
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 108
vintorez Offline
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Posts: 108
Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: Hpasp

Currently I'm reading...
-----------------------
And learning this...
[


Strange, it is a command guided system (if I got it right - no proximity fuse), but it has almost twice the range of "Volkhov"...How about the aquracy? But with a half tone warhead... wave


...and with separate radars (antenna sets) for tracking target and missile - the reason not to use narrow beam for guidance in Volkhov... Wonder how they overcame that alignment problem. It seems that they did not fully - check it out:

Nike page

The same webpage - the accuracy:
"in 1975, after the evaluation of the yearly practice shootings at the NAMFI Range, it was found out that the lethal distance of the fragment pattern could only bring down an enemy Airplane up to the distance of 75 Kilometers. Beyond that point the steering error was to high. From that time on it whas only allowed for German BCO´s to open fire below this distance."

Scroll also down to points describing some features of training and exercises - at some points I think that US did not treat SAMs so seriously as Eastern Bloc did...

I like the Hercules' pre-programmed ascent phase adopted to maximize range - I don't know whether Vega's flight model was inspired by that, but knowing the stories of Sidewinder - R-3, Redeye - Striela-2, or Patriot - S-300PMU, one can be suspicious. smile



BTW, brilliant page! If Hpasp only desired to contact that webmaster, we would be sure to have Hercules as the next simulated system! smile

Last edited by vintorez; 03/09/12 12:39 PM.
#3535576 - 03/09/12 05:37 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: vintorez]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
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Hpasp  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
Originally Posted By: vintorez

I like the Hercules' pre-programmed ascent phase adopted to maximize range - I don't know whether Vega's flight model was inspired by that, but knowing the stories of Sidewinder - R-3, Redeye - Striela-2, or Patriot - S-300PMU, one can be suspicious. smile


Already contacted...
http://ed-thelen.org/favorite.html#SAM
thumbsup


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3535942 - 03/10/12 10:42 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Posts: 481
max2012 Offline
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max2012  Offline
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Posts: 481

The question is "Tornado" is flying at an altitude of 100 meters.

The report is showing a height of 2 km!

Click to reveal..


Asuluk training ground.

Practice target:
RM-217 Zvezda [program-1] simulating Tornado

S-75M3 Volkhov


00:10, Practice target RM-217 Zvezda [program-1] simulating Tornado launched

34:47, V-755 20DSU Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 34km
Target azimuth: 104°
Target elevation: 3°
Target altitude: 2km
SNR mode: Wide Beam H<5 - 75km
Missile guidance method: K (Half Lead Elevated By Constans)


35:19, Missile exploded on Channel-1
Practice target RM-217 Zvezda [program-1] simulating Tornado killed by SAM. (miss distance: 14m)

Total, SNR On Air Time: 1min 37sec


#3535966 - 03/10/12 01:00 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: max2012]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
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Hpasp  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
Originally Posted By: max2012

The question is "Tornado" is flying at an altitude of 100 meters.

The report is showing a height of 2 km!

Click to reveal..


Asuluk training ground.

Practice target:
RM-217 Zvezda [program-1] simulating Tornado

S-75M3 Volkhov


00:10, Practice target RM-217 Zvezda [program-1] simulating Tornado launched

34:47, V-755 20DSU Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 34km
Target azimuth: 104°
Target elevation: 3°
Target altitude: 2km
SNR mode: Wide Beam H<5 - 75km
Missile guidance method: K (Half Lead Elevated By Constans)


35:19, Missile exploded on Channel-1
Practice target RM-217 Zvezda [program-1] simulating Tornado killed by SAM. (miss distance: 14m)

Total, SNR On Air Time: 1min 37sec



Hi Max,

Its really pity, that the Soviet Union had not enough Tornado airplane and crew to be able to fly more realistic targets for us in Asuluk.
We have to practice against elderly S-25 Berkut (SA-1) missiles, simulating the enemy.
thumbsup






Asuluk targets were considered easier than real US targets...
... USAF used to be really unfair enemy neaner.


Last edited by Hpasp; 03/10/12 01:21 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3535968 - 03/10/12 01:03 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 481
max2012 Offline
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max2012  Offline
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Posts: 481

The same goes for missiles "Tomahawk" with a height problem!

Report here ...

Click to reveal..


Asuluk training ground.

Practice target:
LA-17K simulating BGM-109 Tomahawk

S-75M3 Volkhov


00:00, Practice target LA-17K simulating BGM-109 Tomahawk launched

55:43, V-755 20DSU Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 31km
Target azimuth: 71°
Target elevation: 3°
Target altitude: 1,8km
SNR mode: Wide Beam H<5 - 75km
Missile guidance method: K (Half Lead Elevated By Constans)


56:38, V-755 20DSU Missile launched on Channel-2
Target distance: 18km
Target azimuth: 71°
Target elevation: 3°
Target altitude: 1,1km
SNR mode: Wide Beam H<5 - 75km
Missile guidance method: K (Half Lead Elevated By Constans)


57:02, Missile exploded on Channel-2

57:12, V-755 20DSU Missile launched on Channel-3
Target distance: 10km
Target azimuth: 77°
Target elevation: 3°
Target altitude: 629m
SNR mode: Wide Beam H<5 - 75km
Missile guidance method: UPR (Half Lead)


57:26, Missile exploded on Channel-3
Practice target LA-17K simulating BGM-109 Tomahawk killed by SAM. (miss distance: 3m)

Total, SNR On Air Time: 3min 41sec



#3535971 - 03/10/12 01:11 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 481
max2012 Offline
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max2012  Offline
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Posts: 481

Tomahawk and Tornado flying at low altitudes of 100-200 meters, not 1.8 km!

Tornado 100 meters height!

Tomahawk 100-200 meters height!

#3535972 - 03/10/12 01:12 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: max2012]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
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Hpasp  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
Originally Posted By: max2012

The same goes for missiles "Tomahawk" with a height problem!

Report here ...

Click to reveal..


Asuluk training ground.

Practice target:
LA-17K simulating BGM-109 Tomahawk

S-75M3 Volkhov


00:00, Practice target LA-17K simulating BGM-109 Tomahawk launched

55:43, V-755 20DSU Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 31km
Target azimuth: 71°
Target elevation: 3°
Target altitude: 1,8km
SNR mode: Wide Beam H<5 - 75km
Missile guidance method: K (Half Lead Elevated By Constans)


56:38, V-755 20DSU Missile launched on Channel-2
Target distance: 18km
Target azimuth: 71°
Target elevation: 3°
Target altitude: 1,1km
SNR mode: Wide Beam H<5 - 75km
Missile guidance method: K (Half Lead Elevated By Constans)


57:02, Missile exploded on Channel-2

57:12, V-755 20DSU Missile launched on Channel-3
Target distance: 10km
Target azimuth: 77°
Target elevation: 3°
Target altitude: 629m
SNR mode: Wide Beam H<5 - 75km
Missile guidance method: UPR (Half Lead)


57:26, Missile exploded on Channel-3
Practice target LA-17K simulating BGM-109 Tomahawk killed by SAM. (miss distance: 3m)

Total, SNR On Air Time: 3min 41sec




Same issue here...

During the 80's, the Soviet Union had not enough US Tomahawk missiles, to be able to fly more realistic targets for us in Asuluk.
We had to practice against elderly LA-17K remote controlled planes, simulating the enemy...
banghead






Last edited by Hpasp; 03/10/12 01:16 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3535974 - 03/10/12 01:16 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 481
max2012 Offline
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max2012  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 481

Super!

#3535976 - 03/10/12 01:20 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Posts: 481
max2012 Offline
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max2012  Offline
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Posts: 481

Oh, well that's how I think this glider is a very effective low goal or not.

Tomahawk cruise missile is similar to the glider!

#3536055 - 03/10/12 04:40 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Posts: 203
Lonewolf357 Offline
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Lonewolf357  Offline
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Posts: 203
Hmm, but the target height indicator always shows well less than 1 km (closer to 100 meters), not two or so... Is it some kind of "training" program that was built into the SAMs to make them think that targets are actually flying lower than they are?

#3536059 - 03/10/12 04:47 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Posts: 203
Lonewolf357 Offline
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Lonewolf357  Offline
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Posts: 203
Hmm again... tried Neva against Tomahawk simulator... it actually flew at less than 100 meters...

Click to reveal..
Asuluk training ground.

Practice target:
LA-17K simulating BGM-109 Tomahawk

S-125M1 Neva


00:00, Practice target LA-17K simulating BGM-109 Tomahawk launched

46:08, V601P 5V27U Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 17km
Target azimuth: 60°
Target elevation: 0°
Target altitude: 92m
Missile guidance method: PS (Lead)


46:14, V601P 5V27U Missile launched on Channel-2
Target distance: 16km
Target azimuth: 60°
Target elevation: 0°
Target altitude: 136m
Missile guidance method: PS (Lead)


46:31, Missile exploded on Channel-1
Practice target LA-17K simulating BGM-109 Tomahawk killed by SAM. (miss distance: 18m)

46:35, Missile exploded on Channel-2
Practice target LA-17K simulating BGM-109 Tomahawk killed by SAM. (miss distance: 102m)

Total, SNR On Air Time: 2min 52sec

Last edited by Lonewolf357; 03/11/12 06:10 AM.
#3536062 - 03/10/12 04:55 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 203
Lonewolf357 Offline
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Lonewolf357  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 203
But now tried Volkhov against similar target - now it flew much higher, but height indicator showed much less than 1 km... Weird...

Click to reveal..
Asuluk training ground.

Practice target:
LA-17K simulating BGM-109 Tomahawk

S-75M3 Volkhov


00:00, Practice target LA-17K simulating BGM-109 Tomahawk launched

51:02, V-759 5Ya23 Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 33km
Target azimuth: 69°
Target elevation: 3°
Target altitude: 1,8km
SNR mode: Wide Beam H<1 - 75km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)


51:08, V-759 5Ya23 Missile launched on Channel-2
Target distance: 31km
Target azimuth: 70°
Target elevation: 3°
Target altitude: 1,7km
SNR mode: Wide Beam H<1 - 75km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)


51:41, Missile exploded on Channel-1
Practice target LA-17K simulating BGM-109 Tomahawk killed by SAM. (miss distance: 4m)

51:46, Missile exploded on Channel-2
Practice target LA-17K simulating BGM-109 Tomahawk killed by SAM. (miss distance: 4m)

Total, SNR On Air Time: 1min 34sec

A screenshot:




Last edited by Lonewolf357; 03/11/12 06:10 AM.
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