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#3534514 - 03/07/12 07:28 PM Re: IFFCC / DSMS Errors? [Re: Frederf]
Weaponz248 Offline
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PLT OPT is just that a PLT OPT it has more to do with the way the lanyards are routed then it has to do with the install position of the lanyard. Im am review some stuff so I can get some good pics to show the differences. However dont get fixated on the tail solenoid being a fixed option. I will have more on this soon, once I find more info and get home for the night!
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#3534520 - 03/07/12 07:38 PM Re: IFFCC / DSMS Errors? [Re: Weaponz248]
paulrkiii Offline
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Originally Posted By: Weaponz248
PLT OPT is just that a PLT OPT it has more to do with the way the lanyards are routed then it has to do with the install position of the lanyard. Im am review some stuff so I can get some good pics to show the differences. However dont get fixated on the tail solenoid being a fixed option. I will have more on this soon, once I find more info and get home for the night!


Be prepared...even if you quote something out of a Tech Order he will still argue his point...I've given up on trying to "reason" with him long ago
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#3534547 - 03/07/12 08:22 PM Re: IFFCC / DSMS Errors? [Re: Frederf]
Weaponz248 Offline
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One thing we all need to understand is the difference between N, T, and N/T. There are three arming solenoids in a bomb rack(Mau-40/50). A Nose, Tail, and Center. With a N only selected it energize the Nose solenoid only. With a T only selected it energize the Center and Tail only. And finally with N/T selected it energize all three. So with that understanding Fixed means that there is basically one arming loop connected to the rack. So in a FIXED HI your chute lanyard is wired to the fuze lanyard that is connected to the rack. Meaning when the bomb is dropped in an armed state the chute will deploy also. In a FIXED LO config the chute laynard is not connected to anything.


Also paulrkiii pic is a PLT OPT drop.
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#3534689 - 03/08/12 03:34 AM Re: IFFCC / DSMS Errors? [Re: Frederf]
Frederf Offline
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Registered: 10/26/09
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Originally Posted By: Weaponz248
PLT OPT is just that a PLT OPT it has more to do with the way the lanyards are routed then it has to do with the install position of the lanyard. Im am review some stuff so I can get some good pics to show the differences. However dont get fixated on the tail solenoid being a fixed option. I will have more on this soon, once I find more info and get home for the night!


I'm afraid I'm not following the English of this. A picture would be very helpful.

Originally Posted By: Weaponz248
One thing we all need to understand is the difference between N, T, and N/T. There are three arming solenoids in a bomb rack(Mau-40/50). A Nose, Tail, and Center. With a N only selected it energize the Nose solenoid only. With a T only selected it energize the Center and Tail only. And finally with N/T selected it energize all three. So with that understanding Fixed means that there is basically one arming loop connected to the rack. So in a FIXED HI your chute lanyard is wired to the fuze lanyard that is connected to the rack. Meaning when the bomb is dropped in an armed state the chute will deploy also. In a FIXED LO config the chute laynard is not connected to anything.


Also paulrkiii pic is a PLT OPT drop.


This is the first I have heard of a center solenoid. This isn't the ejection piston is it? This is some third device like the nose and tail arming solenoids but in the center?

It seems that our understandings of FIXED LO agree. In such a case the BSU-49 isn't hooked up at all and is simply along for the ride. That's simple enough. I think our understandings of PLT OPT also agree, even if I'm not 100% clear on how the various lanyards are routed and connected. If I understand your description of FIXED HI, then I think my idea of it is mistaken. Reading the Navy document I got the impression that the chute lanyard was attached to a permanent part of the airplane in FIXED HI, making any and all separation resulting in the chute lanyard being pulled (even SJ) even if no solenoids were energized at release.

Right now I'm trying to learn how the arming wires are typically routed and what they are connected to. My analogy of a hand grenade with a pin seems to be too simple. The arming wire appears to be tied to a suspension lug at one end, pass through a clip fixture, and then goes through any access holes to the fuze. The falling weapon causes the wire to be pulled backward through the clip like a rope through a pulley. The loose end of the wire itself slides out of the fuze, then the clip, and falls with the bomb like a tiny wire streamer. This is good as a wire would flap around if left on the airplane. The clips are small and rigid(ish?) and stays attached to the rack if the solenoid was energized or the whole assembly falls with the bomb if the "pulley" clip wasn't held in by the solenoid. The solenoid should release in response to a pull on the clip between 10-14 lbs unenergized and not release >150 lbs energized. Presumably the wire or clips were designed to break under load in case the wire was fouled during release. Please correct me if I'm wrong about these things.

Can you describe the wire routing and attachments for a PLT OPT and FIXED HI config? I'm curious how they differ if both require that the tail (or center?) fuze be selected for chute deployment.

And how can you tell that picture of a PLT OPT config release? I'm curious what detail you're seeing that lets you know.

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#3534693 - 03/08/12 04:35 AM Re: IFFCC / DSMS Errors? [Re: Frederf]
Weaponz248 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Frederf


And how can you tell that picture of a PLT OPT config release? I'm curious what detail you're seeing that lets you know.


Thats a easy one. Those are BDU-50s with a BSU-49. There is no fuze in those bombs so the only lanyard that is hooked up is the BSU-49 chute lanyard. The pilot thus has the option to select which config to drop the bomb in. If he selects nose the bomb would drop in a low drag config. Select anything else and the bomb will drop in HIgh drag config.
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#3534754 - 03/08/12 08:28 AM Re: IFFCC / DSMS Errors? [Re: Frederf]
Ghanja Offline
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Registered: 12/28/10
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I dug up the thread over at ED forums and I even wrote to the ED support about the issue on the MK-82AIR but they could not help me. Guess we will have to live with "the way it is". I would really like to switch from a HD to a LD profile without having to dig around in the inventory first ... :-/

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#3535162 - 03/08/12 07:23 PM Re: IFFCC / DSMS Errors? [Re: Frederf]
Frederf Offline
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Registered: 10/26/09
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If you want to switch from LD to HD in flight you should inventory all your MK-82AIRs as one of the pilot option types. Then you can make a profile with N/T and another with just N and easily switch between the two with a simple flip of the DMS switch. The INV trick doesn't work in real life. The annoyance is that the default data cartridge load isn't pilot option so you'd have to futz with the inventory before every flight. Not only is the pilot option configuration infinitely more flexible and desirable from a video game user's point of view, everything I've read suggests that's its also the most common when actual iron is involved.

Originally Posted By: Weaponz248
Thats a easy one. Those are BDU-50s with a BSU-49. There is no fuze in those bombs so the only lanyard that is hooked up is the BSU-49 chute lanyard. The pilot thus has the option to select which config to drop the bomb in. If he selects nose the bomb would drop in a low drag config. Select anything else and the bomb will drop in HIgh drag config.


I'm sorry to bug you with more questions but I would really like to understand this. Could the BDU-50 in the picture have been set up in a way that the chute deploys every time regardless of fuze selection (N, T, NONE, N/T)?

Given this information:
"So in a FIXED HI your chute lanyard is wired to the fuze lanyard that is connected to the rack. Meaning when the bomb is dropped in an armed state the chute will deploy also."

I think the source of my confusion can be summed up this way:
"For the chute to deploy in FIXED HI the arming wire must be connected to an energized rack solenoid."
"For the chute to deploy in PLT OPT the arming wire must be connected to an energized rack solenoid."

This makes FIXED HI seem not so fixed, but variable. If that is the case then I'm not seeing how FIXED HI and PLT OPT are different from each other.

I hesitate to use DCS software as a primary experimental source but if you jettison a FIXED HI bomb not armed, the chute still deploys. If one ignores the INVALID FUZING warning and actually pickles a FIXED HI bomb with only the NOSE fuze selected, the ballute deploys in a seemingly predestined fashion despite the fact that only the nose fuze was selected. Of course you can't aim the thing because the CCIP imagery is blocked by the warning message. Should that happen?

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#3535240 - 03/08/12 10:35 PM Re: IFFCC / DSMS Errors? [Re: Frederf]
Weaponz248 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Frederf

Originally Posted By: Weaponz248
Thats a easy one. Those are BDU-50s with a BSU-49. There is no fuze in those bombs so the only lanyard that is hooked up is the BSU-49 chute lanyard. The pilot thus has the option to select which config to drop the bomb in. If he selects nose the bomb would drop in a low drag config. Select anything else and the bomb will drop in HIgh drag config.


I'm sorry to bug you with more questions but I would really like to understand this. Could the BDU-50 in the picture have been set up in a way that the chute deploys every time regardless of fuze selection (N, T, NONE, N/T)?

Given this information:
"So in a FIXED HI your chute lanyard is wired to the fuze lanyard that is connected to the rack. Meaning when the bomb is dropped in an armed state the chute will deploy also."

I think the source of my confusion can be summed up this way:
"For the chute to deploy in FIXED HI the arming wire must be connected to an energized rack solenoid."
"For the chute to deploy in PLT OPT the arming wire must be connected to an energized rack solenoid."

This makes FIXED HI seem not so fixed, but variable. If that is the case then I'm not seeing how FIXED HI and PLT OPT are different from each other.

I hesitate to use DCS software as a primary experimental source but if you jettison a FIXED HI bomb not armed, the chute still deploys. If one ignores the INVALID FUZING warning and actually pickles a FIXED HI bomb with only the NOSE fuze selected, the ballute deploys in a seemingly predestined fashion despite the fact that only the nose fuze was selected. Of course you can't aim the thing because the CCIP imagery is blocked by the warning message. Should that happen?



To clear up confusion don't think of the chute lanyard as a arming wire. Arming wire will always be hooked up with a live bomb. In a FIXED HI config the chute lanyard is hooked up to the arming wire and the arming wire is hooked up to the solenoid. In PLT OPT the chute lanyard is hooked up to the arming solenoid and the arming wire is hooked up to a different solenoid.

As for hooking the BDU-50s chute up to deploy regardless of solenoid selection. Yes it is pssible but not in the tech data so we would never do it. When dropping a BDU-50 the only solenoid energized is the AFT.
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#3535351 - 03/09/12 05:53 AM Re: IFFCC / DSMS Errors? [Re: Frederf]
Frederf Offline
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Registered: 10/26/09
Posts: 613
I see.

FIXED HI is "fixed" because the fate of the chute lanyard is tied (literally) to the fate of the aft arming wire. The ballute doesn't always deploy, but it absolutely must deploy if the arming wire it is connected to is selected. PLT OPT is slightly different because the chute and fuze are connected to different rack solenoids (TAIL and CENTER?)

Does the MAU-50 (14" capable) have nose, center, tail solenoids? I see the MAU-40 does (30" capable). I can't find a good diagram or description.

What I'm not understanding is what's so invalid about pulling the nose fuze only on a FIXED HI config. Not all of the features may be activated, but maybe that combination is desired.

STORE: MK-82AIR
CONFIG: FIXED HI
N-FZ: M904
T-FZ: M905

Selected fuze: NOSE
Result: INVALID FUZING


STORE: BDU-50
CONFIG: FIXED HI
N-FZ: M904
T-FZ: M905

Selected fuze: NOSE
Result: no error

Nearly identical inventories. One is the BDU version. I wonder why one says invalid fuze and the other doesn't.

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#3535366 - 03/09/12 06:32 AM Re: IFFCC / DSMS Errors? [Re: Weaponz248]
Weaponz248 Offline
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Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 2059
Loc: Milwaukee, WI, USA
Originally Posted By: Weaponz248
One thing we all need to understand is the difference between N, T, and N/T. There are three arming solenoids in a bomb rack(Mau-40/50). A Nose, Tail, and Center. With a N only selected it energize the Nose solenoid only. With a T only selected it energize the Center and Tail only. And finally with N/T selected it energize all three. So with that understanding Fixed means that there is basically one arming loop connected to the rack. So in a FIXED HI your chute lanyard is wired to the fuze lanyard that is connected to the rack. Meaning when the bomb is dropped in an armed state the chute will deploy also. In a FIXED LO config the chute laynard is not connected to anything.


Also paulrkiii pic is a PLT OPT drop.


Ok quick correction, I was wrong on which solenoids were tied together. The Nose and Center solenoids are tied together and the Tail is separate.

So in a FIXED HI the arming lanyard and chute lanyard are hooked up to the TAIL solenoid.
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