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#3527190 - 02/27/12 05:54 PM I never see 121% engine Over-Torque anymore, how come?  
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So I had set up this very lengthy mission plan that was going to take more then an hour to pull off a deep incursion behind enemy lines. I'm bobbing up to take out some SAM sights right near the FARP in the High Azer (3,0) map/terrain and I can barely stay at a hover without being over-torqued. I also noticed that I was sluggish and heavy feeling while I was flying around ducking for cover from Havocs and Hokums right at the start of the mission. I was like WTH...why is my Longbow(R) so sluggish and why am I over-torquing so much?

So I started paying attention to my Engine Torque Readout on the IHADSS and also on the Engine MFD and noticed its max was around 113%. I distinctly have memories of playing years ago and being able to over-torque to 121%.

I open my longbow anthology manual, and sure enough the description of the Engine MFD and HUD all show pics of over-torque going to 121%. It even says the range is from 0%-120%.

But then I realize I am weighted down with a full armament load and then I start to wonder if the game calculates your waypoint distances and loads you with fuel accordingly; thus, I am flying heavy at mission start since I've got such a long flight path ahead of me. I also discover that my max torque value changes with altitude and because I am in the 'High Azer' map, my max over-torque is reduced just by the effects of altitude. Thus I start to think that I have explained it away, and I am impressed that the sim is so realistically designed! clapping


But, being the good troubleshooter that I am, I of course have to go and load other maps to see if I can get a low enough elevation map to allow me to fly at or near sea level and see if my torque goes to 121% like I remember. duh


The most I could get was 118%. I wonder why I remember over-torquing years ago to my full max of 121%? Was I incorrectly recalling LB1? Anyone else notice this?


Thanks ahead of time for any input you might have!
~Victor1_9er


AH-64D Longbow - Purchased in 1996
Longbow Gold - Purchased in 1997
Longbow Anthology - Purchased in 1998 (still have)
...Looking for the 'Ingress Point' to this,
my fav sim of all time!
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#3527756 - 02/28/12 02:07 PM Re: I never see 121% engine Over-Torque anymore, how come? [Re: Victor1_9er]  
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You know, Victor1_9er, you're the sort of guy (I assume you're a guy, if you're a girl, even better!) that I would love to have a face-to-face conversation with. From your other post and this one, you clearly have an attention to detail surpassed only by my own! wink

As I was always bogged down with the rotor RPM bug, on my Win7 PC, I never tried to over-torque. So from recent memory, I can't recall what the situations were with varying top-end torque. In fact I can't ever remember seeing varying top-end torque limits over different terrain/altitudes, so you may have discovered something there that I never did!

Do you adjust your collective with a throttle controller or have a built-in throttle on your joystick? I know that there have been many reports (in many heli sims) with people only being able to achieve a certain torque number because they don't have their joysticks/throttles calibrated correctly. As you may be aware, if you don't calibrate your throttle, you may not be getting the full use of its range. For example, you may be pushing/pulling the throttle as far as it will go and only getting like 80% torque. On the other hand, it's surely also possible to only move the throttle lever half-way and achieve maximum over-torque.

This may not be the case but I do know, from my own experiences, that on Windows 7 (and I assume Vista) that I had to re-calibrate my joystick just about every time before I had a session of LB2. For some reason, the game would need the joystick to be re-calibrated before each session otherwise when the joystick was left centered, the heli would sideslip or nose-down or something. This *may* be the case with your throttle.

Another possibility - and in fact the most likely - is that you are flying undamaged, with both engines. I seem to remember seeing 124% or 125% torque readouts when I played. Try turning off one engine and then max-out your collective. When only one engine is running, it has to work harder, therefore more over-torque is allowed. And yes the game is very realistic, and especially for its time, as if you leave that one engine running at max torque for a length of time, it will become damaged.

You know this reminds me of the time when I was in those high mountains of Azerbaijan, and I once reached 215 knots and was at 100% torque (I have the screenshot to prove it)... after a few seconds I was reliably informed by Betty that I had damaged my main rotor! Luckily, I was coming down the steep side of a mountain range towards my FARP. I'd like to say that I landed safely, but I can't remember.

I apologize for all that talk on joysticks/throttles, I typed that in before I thought about the engines. I reckon that you have a good chance of seeing your over-torque numbers with this 'one engine' test. I've just left in the throttle text to serve as another possible explanation and for reference.

#3527897 - 02/28/12 04:56 PM Re: I never see 121% engine Over-Torque anymore, how come? [Re: Victor1_9er]  
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One of the bugs in running LB2 on fast systems (in addition to the useless rockets) is excessive ROTOR RPM LOW when descending rapidly or when making sudden large collective changes. I choose to call it inadvertent modelling of Vortex Ring State or Settling with Power, and try to guard against it.

Along with the bug is the SUPER ENGINES... You can get that thing up to over 160 knots in level flight that was never possible before. Climbing the heights of Azerbaijan, though, is still a chore for the straining engines.

I never paid that much attention to the maximum over-torque as I try to avoid it. 120% sounds about right to me...but it still doesn't help the 'fast cpu rotor rpm low' issue.


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#3527914 - 02/28/12 05:17 PM Re: I never see 121% engine Over-Torque anymore, how come? [Re: Victor1_9er]  
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Indeed, I am a guy. lol. And yes I have a very intense attention to detail. I'm the one who wrote up an analysis chart for what value I need to run Turbo at back in 2010 when I first joined the forum and got LB2 up and running:
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3045081/Constant_Blade_Stalls_dgvoodoo.html#Post3045081
So thanks for noticing Flyboy! WinkNGrin

And thanks Recluse, using Turbo on my system I have been able to mitigate the CPU too fast problems and don't have rotor stalls anymore (or low rotor RPM), nor do I have super engines or HE rocket aiming problems. But this is different then being a CPU too fast problem, and I am not inclined to believe it is a too fast problem since all the other too fast issues are not bothering my game. It's more like an incorrect throttle assignment to the keyboard and joystick or exagerated altitude effect (or even more accurate effect actually), from what the game was like years ago when I played on my old system.

So here is the low-down on the top-end torque limits. I also don't have a lot of memories of their being altitude affects to over-torque limits from back in the win98 days. But sure enough now when I climb to my max altitude on any map, my over-torque value is reduced. It gets down to about 110% when I am at the highest points over the highest terrain. As for realism it makes perfect sense since at lower elevations the air is denser and the rotor lift greater for a given collective, thus the engines work harder at a given angle of attack of the rotor blades. I seriously wonder if my Anthology version of LB2 (it's version 2.09F btw) has some differences then what everyone else is using. I know the patch only brings you to version 2.09E. Would love to see someone else confirm this.

Anyway, I use my Saitek Cyborg X to control throttle and I am very careful about calibration and deadzones both in the joystick control panel and in the [alt]-[o] options menu in-game. So I am certain I am maxing the throttle and not being handicapped by settings. As far as having to re-map or recalibrate the joystick controls before playing LB2, that is a negative, Sir. The cool thing about this joystick on my system is that the profiler software automatically calibrates and then auto-loads your key-mapping profile even if you unplug and re-plug the USB mid-game. I've had to do that at times when for some reason the buttons get glitchy and stick.

I do remember going above 121% while on one engine (even as high as 124%) in the old days -- just as you said -- but I also remember being able to easily go to 121% too and that is something that I cannot do at all now. And here is something else that makes me think it is a slight bug. I uninstalled my joystick entirely to insure that the drivers were not messing up any of the throttle limits. When I played the game on "keyboard only" I made a shocking discovery. The keyboard number buttons are for quickly setting engine torque values; [1] = 10%, [2] = 20%, ... [9] = 90%, and so on and so forth with [0] = 100% (as stated in the manual). Well when I push the keyboard throttle numbers on my system here is what I get: [1] = 11%, [2] = 23%, [3] = 34%, [4] = 45%, [5] = 57%, ... [9] = 105% [0] = 117%. It is supposed to be that hitting [0] gets you to 100% and you have to manually adjust higher using [+] key to go into over-torque. But in this case the over-torque amount has been averaged into the entire number range, since as you can see that each increment is about 1.7% over what it should be, thus adding 17% to the total and getting me to 117% when I hit [0].

One might be tempted to say 'Who cares, it is only 4% difference from 121%?!' but I tested this on the lower elevation maps. When in the High Azer maps my max is only 113%, and that is a big enough difference to matter.

I'll let you know about the one engine test. And yes plunging downhill into a valley FARP after ripple launching hellfires and trying to escape a Mig-29, I've reached those high speeds and had Betty tell me 'main rotor is damaged sir.' And if you listen closely the rotor sound changes to reflect the rotor damage -- just awesome! cool


AH-64D Longbow - Purchased in 1996
Longbow Gold - Purchased in 1997
Longbow Anthology - Purchased in 1998 (still have)
...Looking for the 'Ingress Point' to this,
my fav sim of all time!
#3527937 - 02/28/12 05:38 PM Re: I never see 121% engine Over-Torque anymore, how come? [Re: Victor1_9er]  
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Originally Posted By: Victor1_9er
And yes I have a very intense attention to detail. I'm the one who wrote up an analysis chart for what value I need to run Turbo at back in 2010 when I first joined the forum and got LB2 up and running:
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3045081/Constant_Blade_Stalls_dgvoodoo.html#Post3045081


I had forgotten all about that. That stuff is just borderline geek! wink


Example of insane attention to detail:
Originally Posted By: Victor1_9er
I do remember going above 121% while on one engine (even as high as 124%) in the old days -- just as you said -- but I also remember being able to easily go to 121% too and that is something that I cannot do at all now. And here is something else that makes me think it is a slight bug. I uninstalled my joystick entirely to insure that the drivers were not messing up any of the throttle limits. When I played the game on "keyboard only" I made a shocking discovery. The keyboard number buttons are for quickly setting engine torque values; [1] = 10%, [2] = 20%, ... [9] = 90%, and so on and so forth with [0] = 100% (as stated in the manual). Well when I push the keyboard throttle numbers on my system here is what I get: [1] = 11%, [2] = 23%, [3] = 34%, [4] = 45%, [5] = 57%, ... [9] = 105% [0] = 117%. It is supposed to be that hitting [0] gets you to 100% and you have to manually adjust higher using [+] key to go into over-torque. But in this case the over-torque amount has been averaged into the entire number range, since as you can see that each increment is about 1.7% over what it should be, thus adding 17% to the total and getting me to 117% when I hit [0].


Example of insane lack of attention to detail:
Originally Posted By: Victor1_9er
... had Betty tell me 'main rotor is damaged sir.'


I caught you out. LOL. biggrin

Betty never says sir shedevil

#3527972 - 02/28/12 06:18 PM Re: I never see 121% engine Over-Torque anymore, how come? [Re: Flyboy]  
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Originally Posted By: Flyboy
Example of insane lack of attention to detail:
Originally Posted By: Victor1_9er
... had Betty tell me 'main rotor is damaged sir.'


I caught you out. LOL. biggrin

Betty never says sir shedevil


Oh dear God...indeed you have caught me!!! mycomputer

Bit<hing Betty never says that, but the CPG does!
duh


AH-64D Longbow - Purchased in 1996
Longbow Gold - Purchased in 1997
Longbow Anthology - Purchased in 1998 (still have)
...Looking for the 'Ingress Point' to this,
my fav sim of all time!
#3528606 - 02/29/12 02:21 PM Re: I never see 121% engine Over-Torque anymore, how come? [Re: Victor1_9er]  
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Talking about your collective (throttle) observations, reminded me of some rather geeky calculations that I came up with years ago.

Extract from my Flyboy's Strategy Guide for Jane's Combat Simulations Longbow 2

Quote:
When FUEL PSI is low, you tend to use around 1lb of fuel every second. This is opposed to 1lb every 3-4 seconds when you are not damaged. Here are some estimated times of travel when the fuel line is leaking:

Key: Fuel left (lbs) - Time (in minutes) before tank runs empty
500 lbs - 08.30 mins
1000 lbs - 16.60 mins
1500 lbs - 25.00 mins
2000 lbs - 33.30 mins

* Times are rough and are based on using maximum collective.

* Divide the amount of fuel left by 60 to get the rough time remaining. This only works if the fuel is being used at a rate of a pound per second. If the fuel is being used at a rate of a pound every two seconds, then divide the amount of fuel by 30.

* This calculation is handy, as on your IHADSS you get an ETA for waypoints. You can work out whether you can make it back to base or not. So, if the time before the tank runs empty is more than the time it takes to get back to base (Waypoint 1), then you will make it. Note, you will not make it easily if the time matches, as you have to allow a minute or so to pull up into a hover and land without crashing.

* If you have to, go to another FARP. You can add a waypoint to the chosen FARP in the map screen (Alt N) - see how long it will take to get there by looking at the waypoint ETA time on your IHADSS or MFD.


biggrin

#3528660 - 02/29/12 03:46 PM Re: I never see 121% engine Over-Torque anymore, how come? [Re: Victor1_9er]  
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Yup Yup Yup...That is so something I would do. In fact in my latest exploration of LB2, I wrote out my own personal install guide (specific to my setup); wrote up a detailed playing guide -- as in what to do an not to do to keep everything running smoothly with minimal crashes; and I wrote up a bug report to catalogue instances of crashes and what may have caused them so I could nail down what I was doing differently.

I even have a log of my debrief crashes that I have been taking note of so that perhaps I can try and see what is causing it if possible. My observations are of course anecdotal but alas they give me a sense of hope, that maybe just maybe I'll find the reason why.

I was so disgusted last night, because I played out a crazy mission where I snuck up behind two different sets of enemy Helios, switched from FCR to TADS and lazed them for accuracy right before I lit them up with my chain gun. Was so satisfying to see them explode or have their tail section break off just as I am overtaking them. Close range kills are Suh-Weeeet! But that's not why I was disgusted. Not only did I later survive a missile hit from a Mig-29 (whom I killed with a stinger), but also I took some AAA hits from a 2S6 guarding a refueling convoy. Took them out too! Then I went on to clean up a major SAM site atop a mountain and even destroyed my primary objective, which was a SAM site/communication center. My cockpit was damaged and marginal and I was limping home on one engine. Landed at my FARP and was expecting a heros welcome, but instead I got a crash to desktop! Grrrrr!!!

I wonder if it crashed at mission end because I changed my 'MaxCamDist' in my CA.ini file. Probably not, but oh well. That I guess is the breaks when you play a 14-year-old game. Good grief! Lol


AH-64D Longbow - Purchased in 1996
Longbow Gold - Purchased in 1997
Longbow Anthology - Purchased in 1998 (still have)
...Looking for the 'Ingress Point' to this,
my fav sim of all time!
#3528720 - 02/29/12 04:50 PM Re: I never see 121% engine Over-Torque anymore, how come? [Re: Victor1_9er]  
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Sounds like you're having a good time in the Azer2000 campaign, apart from the debrief crashes.

After a rather lengthy, on-off test I actually narrowed down the debrief crash on my PC to my joystick. It is a Logitech Attack3 joystick, not that that really matters. What matters is the fact, I think, that it's USB. I found that whenever I had it plugged in, I'd get a mission debrief crash to desktop - but with it unplugged I wouldn't get the crash. This is of coure a lose-lose situation, as with it plugged in - I get the crash, with it unplugged - I can't damn well fly!

Well, I say about USB, but it might be a combination of Windows 7 and USB. When I had Windows XP I was using the same joystick and didn't get the crashes.

#3528734 - 02/29/12 05:04 PM Re: I never see 121% engine Over-Torque anymore, how come? [Re: Victor1_9er]  
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Originally Posted By: Victor1_9er
Indeed, I am a guy. lol. And yes I have a very intense attention to detail. I'm the one who wrote up an analysis chart for what value I need to run Turbo at back in 2010 when I first joined the forum and got LB2 up and running:
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3045081/Constant_Blade_Stalls_dgvoodoo.html#Post3045081
So thanks for noticing Flyboy! WinkNGrin

And thanks Recluse, using Turbo on my system I have been able to mitigate the CPU too fast problems and don't have rotor stalls anymore (or low rotor RPM), nor do I have super engines or HE rocket aiming problems. But this is different then being a CPU too fast problem, and I am not inclined to believe it is a too fast problem since all the other too fast issues are not bothering my game. It's more like an incorrect throttle assignment to the keyboard and joystick or exagerated altitude effect (or even more accurate effect actually), from what the game was like years ago when I played on my old system.



I recall trying mightily to get TURBO to fix my rockets back on the old Win 98 P3-550 machine (with V5 5500). Never quite found the balance you have, in fact even accepting crappy frame rates, I still couldn't get rockets to work over any range approaching the ones possible with an older system. Not sure TURBO even works on my new machine, even though it is 'only' creaky old E6600 Core2Duo. Maybe it is worth a try, though. I tried assigning only a single core, but that didn't seem to do much. Almost seems like cheating to always load out with Hellfires. Due to the rocket bug, it is pretty much suicide to even TRY to do a campaign with limited armament.


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#3530545 - 03/02/12 04:55 PM Re: I never see 121% engine Over-Torque anymore, how come? [Re: Victor1_9er]  
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FYI, I was wrong about the Anthology version being a different version then everyone else. Evidently the 2.09E patch once followed by the DDU update brings you to 2.09F. This is the same version I am running. All patched and updated LB2s are 2.09F. If I got really motivated I could install onto my old XP rig and see if the over-torque values are altitude adjusted as much as they are on my Vista machine. But I don't know if I have the energy for that. I just wanted to know if it was a bug or if it was an intentional thing. back in Windows98 it seemed to me that altitude wasn't as much of a factor -- the effect was very minimal. In any event it makes my chopper sluggish at higher elevations -- which is more realistic, but might be an exagerated effect on these faster machines. Hard to know if it is by design or a bug.

Originally Posted By: Flyboy
Sounds like you're having a good time in the Azer2000 campaign, apart from the debrief crashes.

Oh yeah, it's definitely a lot of fun. First time ever that I played the campaign this far. My piloting skills have improved a great deal -- enough that I just might feel good enough to fly with Recluse soon. I certainly don't want to be a noob and crash right after starting a MP mission...lol

The truth is, that I am too successful at the Azer2000 campaign. I just finished my 11th mission, and the damn Azer forces surrendered! I hadn't even pushed the front lines beyond the High Azer (3,0) map! So I just went back a mission (I backup the campaign .SGM file after each mission) and made sure most of the other flights failed at their objectives so I could continue playing the campaign and at least get to the other maps. It's fun to fly in different areas as you push the enemy eastward.

Good thing I did this because I discovered another cause of the debrief crash. I agree with you Flyboy that the USB joystick is mostly to blame for this, but I have now documented other ways it happens if the Pilot#.dat file is corrupted in any way as in this old post by Shadow=ASP=:
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1727999/1.html

As I mentioned if the 'Replace' flag is set to true for any of the other pilots, I get the debrief crash. Also in the '[Pilot00:Mission]'section of the .dat file, if 'Mission=0x00000000' is something other then zero I get a crash. This was happening after the Azer forces surrendered and I was still trying to fly the campaign. Throughout the entire campaign the 'Mission' and 'CurrentMissionType' were both zero, but after they surrendered those changed and I kept getting debrief crashes until I went in and reset them to zero manually. Now no more debrief crashes and I can continue the campaign which I've now completed another 2 missions and the map has been pushed eastward.

Originally Posted By: Recluse
Due to the rocket bug, it is pretty much suicide to even TRY to do a campaign with limited armament.

I almost never used the rockets even back in the day, unless I absolutely had to because it was such a pain to have to get so close to the enemy for the rockets to hit. I too found it suicide and mostly stuck to Hellfires to do the job -- and still do now! Let's hope we don't have to use rockets if we do try a MP mission!


AH-64D Longbow - Purchased in 1996
Longbow Gold - Purchased in 1997
Longbow Anthology - Purchased in 1998 (still have)
...Looking for the 'Ingress Point' to this,
my fav sim of all time!
#3530715 - 03/02/12 08:01 PM Re: I never see 121% engine Over-Torque anymore, how come? [Re: Victor1_9er]  
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Originally Posted By: Victor1_9er

Oh yeah, it's definitely a lot of fun. First time ever that I played the campaign this far. My piloting skills have improved a great deal -- enough that I just might feel good enough to fly with Recluse soon. I certainly don't want to be a noob and crash right after starting a MP mission...lol



IT has been so long since I have taken the old girl for a spin that I would be more likely to be the noob who crashes immediately!! Your new skills are probably much better polished than my rusty old ones.

Quote:

The truth is, that I am too successful at the Azer2000 campaign. I just finished my 11th mission, and the damn Azer forces surrendered! I hadn't even pushed the front lines beyond the High Azer (3,0) map! So I just went back a mission (I backup the campaign .SGM file after each mission) and made sure most of the other flights failed at their objectives so I could continue playing the campaign and at least get to the other maps. It's fun to fly in different areas as you push the enemy eastward.


That's interesting! I recall back in the day doing an Azer2000 campaign, many many missions in and there was not a SINGLE red icon left on the map, and at the end of the mission, it declared the enemy victorious... SAY WHAAAAAT??? Eugene and I did a complete MP campaign (non-AZER2000, IIRC) and there was an odd bug where I as the client could NEVER see troops, for example being dropped off or picked up in an Insertion/Extraction. Despite the fact that he as HOST saw SUCCESS+, I saw a FAILED mission, because, for some reason, my machine didn't see any troops surviving. At the end of the campaign, and while he saw a VICTORY, I did not and didn't even get a ribbon!! Never got to the bottom of that one.



Quote:

I almost never used the rockets even back in the day, unless I absolutely had to because it was such a pain to have to get so close to the enemy for the rockets to hit. I too found it suicide and mostly stuck to Hellfires to do the job -- and still do now! Let's hope we don't have to use rockets if we do try a MP mission!


There was nothing I liked better than hovering just outside the range of a ZSU-23 and getting a rocket kill. Their range was something like 2.3 Km and I could get rocket kills out to the max 3 Km. Using MPSM to take out tanks was fun too, though they would NOT generally work on stationary tanks in revetments, despite the fact that the bomblets SHOULD have been dispersing down onto the turret.


Long system spec sig follows:



XP Box

Core2Duo E6600
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EVGA GTX 560Ti
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ANTEC TP3-550 550W
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Soundblaster X-FI XtremeGamer
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16 GB RAM
Nvidia GTX 770
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Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit

Flight Gear:

Cougar Hotas S/N 26453
CHPro Rudder Pedals

#3531348 - 03/03/12 03:43 PM Re: I never see 121% engine Over-Torque anymore, how come? [Re: Victor1_9er]  
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Originally Posted By: Victor1_9er
I agree with you Flyboy that the USB joystick is mostly to blame for this...


<smug face>

Seriously, you've found some great things out. And I hope that all goes well if you do ever get to try multiplayer.

#3532112 - 03/04/12 07:48 PM Re: I never see 121% engine Over-Torque anymore, how come? [Re: Recluse]  
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OK, so I had some free time yesterday, and installed on my old XP rig. Sure enough the altitude effect on over-torque is the same as on my Vista machine. So that means it is not technically a design bug. That of course does not mean however, that it is not an exaggerated effect on todays faster machines just as Recluse has pointed out in other posts about say 'Turbulance' being ridiculously exagerated because of the game running too fast.

I installed on my XP rig not only to check the torque issue, but also because today I am going to install Hamachi on both and see if I can get MP to work using TCP/IP mode. This of course is in preparation for an eventual MP mission or two down the road.
WinkNGrin

Originally Posted By: Recluse
That's interesting! I recall back in the day doing an Azer2000 campaign, many many missions in and there was not a SINGLE red icon left on the map, and at the end of the mission, it declared the enemy victorious... SAY WHAAAAAT??? Eugene and I did a complete MP campaign (non-AZER2000, IIRC) and there was an odd bug where I as the client could NEVER see troops, for example being dropped off or picked up in an Insertion/Extraction. Despite the fact that he as HOST saw SUCCESS+, I saw a FAILED mission, because, for some reason, my machine didn't see any troops surviving. At the end of the campaign, and while he saw a VICTORY, I did not and didn't even get a ribbon!! Never got to the bottom of that one.


OMG, that is crazy! I think I would be irritated if the enemy was victorious after their complete obliteration! If you are truly interested in ribbons/stats/mission completions, all that can be adjusted in the .dat file so that even if some bugs in MP didn't net you the reward, you can still get it. If honestly earned, I don't see a problem with adjusting the .dat file accordingly.

Originally Posted By: Recluse
There was nothing I liked better than hovering just outside the range of a ZSU-23 and getting a rocket kill. Their range was something like 2.3 Km and I could get rocket kills out to the max 3 Km. Using MPSM to take out tanks was fun too, though they would NOT generally work on stationary tanks in revetments, despite the fact that the bomblets SHOULD have been dispersing down onto the turret.


OK, I have a confession to make. After testing out on my XP rig, I also discovered that although using Turbo to slow down my CPU does prevent the 'Low Rotor RPM' or 'Blade Stall' issue, it does not stop the exagerated 'Turbulence' effect or fix the HE rockets landing short of their target. Just as you have discovered in other posts about this bug Recluse, I have also discovered that I CAN get the rockets to hit their target if I slow the CPU down to some insane number -- but it comes at a very steep price. Just as you explained, my framerate is just lunacy when I do this, and I have all kinds of problems with my USB joystick constantly freezing up at these low CPU levels. It's simply not worth it. So I never did find that 'balance' between framerate and rockets working. I just have to settle for some in-between workaround. I can still use rockets and make kills, but I have to forego using them over say about 1.3 KM. At close range I can still get a kill, but not over longer distances. Killing a ZSU at 3 KM is quite an accomplishment and it's a shame it is not possible on today's machines. I was somewhat dissapointed by this when I was testing yesterday, but then who am I to complain when I am after all having loads of fun on a sim that is 14 years old!
cool


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Longbow Gold - Purchased in 1997
Longbow Anthology - Purchased in 1998 (still have)
...Looking for the 'Ingress Point' to this,
my fav sim of all time!
#3532302 - 03/05/12 01:02 AM Re: I never see 121% engine Over-Torque anymore, how come? [Re: Victor1_9er]  
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I always turn the TURBULENCE OFF because the insane rocking back and forth is just too annoying. I don't believe the TURBULENCE setting does much more than make you rock from side to side anyway, though, MAYBE there are some wind effects that I never noticed.

I decided that the tradeoff of framerate for rocket accuracy at 1.2 KM wasn't worth it, as the chain gun works pretty well at this range for pretty much any target that you would use HE rockets for. I should probably investigate preventing the LOW ROTOR RPM, though. That would save me the long lazy spiraling pattern I have to use to land at a FARP, especially when it is deep in a valley that you have to descent into after flying cross the mountain crest.


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#3532555 - 03/05/12 12:43 PM Re: I never see 121% engine Over-Torque anymore, how come? [Re: Recluse]  
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Originally Posted By: Recluse
I always turn the TURBULENCE OFF because the insane rocking back and forth is just too annoying. I don't believe the TURBULENCE setting does much more than make you rock from side to side anyway, though, MAYBE there are some wind effects that I never noticed.


Of course there are wind effects! I thought you would have had more faith in the authenticity of LB2 than that! I believe the turbulence actually rocks you from side-to-side, not back-and-forth. Have you really never noticed smoke from destroyed units blowing in a certain direction on a 'windy' mission? And in the 3D cockpit view, have you never launched a Hellfire and had the ignition exhaust smoke blow all over your canopy?

#3532573 - 03/05/12 01:33 PM Re: I never see 121% engine Over-Torque anymore, how come? [Re: Flyboy]  
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Originally Posted By: Flyboy
Originally Posted By: Recluse
I always turn the TURBULENCE OFF because the insane rocking back and forth is just too annoying. I don't believe the TURBULENCE setting does much more than make you rock from side to side anyway, though, MAYBE there are some wind effects that I never noticed.


Of course there are wind effects! I thought you would have had more faith in the authenticity of LB2 than that! I believe the turbulence actually rocks you from side-to-side, not back-and-forth. Have you really never noticed smoke from destroyed units blowing in a certain direction on a 'windy' mission? And in the 3D cockpit view, have you never launched a Hellfire and had the ignition exhaust smoke blow all over your canopy?



Hmmm in the QUOTE above, I believe I said "Side to Side" after I said Back and Forth. I was looking over my Left Wing Pylon when I said Back and Forth, and straight ahead when I said Side to Side... OK??? pilot


What I meant about wind effects was whether or not there were ADDITIONAL WIND EFFECTS with the Turbulence option turned on vs. Turbulence turned OFF. While I have noticed the wind effects you mention, I don't recall encountering any wind induced buffeting or noticing speed changes due to flying downwind vs. upwind. I believe the briefings DO give you a wind speed and direction.


Long system spec sig follows:



XP Box

Core2Duo E6600
ASUS P5N32-E SLI nVIDIA nFORCE 680I
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#3532620 - 03/05/12 03:22 PM Re: I never see 121% engine Over-Torque anymore, how come? [Re: Victor1_9er]  
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The Turbulence problem I was refering to was the sudden and extreme YAWing that happens at low speeds, especially at lower altitude -- as in resuming flight from a hover and having the helo YAWing around a lot before enough forward momentum stops this.

I was looking at Flyboy's post about Multiplayer, and this was discussed here:
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3128906/Re_Multiplayer.html#Post3128906

The gentle rocking back and forth is not much of an irritation to me, but having the helo swinging around sometimes make me feel like I am a newbie pilot all over again.

Originally Posted By: Recluse
I should probably investigate preventing the LOW ROTOR RPM, though. That would save me the long lazy spiraling pattern I have to use to land at a FARP, especially when it is deep in a valley that you have to descent into after flying cross the mountain crest.


Plus you get the added benefit of being able to duck behind a mountain fast when bobbing-up to check out a SAM sight and they launch on you, or evading a enemy air-to-air missle by quickly ducking out of sight. My 'Blade Stall' problems meant I could hardly perform any defensive aerobatics. Usually I would just fall right out of the sky. Now that is no fun at all!

Last edited by Victor1_9er; 03/05/12 03:27 PM.

AH-64D Longbow - Purchased in 1996
Longbow Gold - Purchased in 1997
Longbow Anthology - Purchased in 1998 (still have)
...Looking for the 'Ingress Point' to this,
my fav sim of all time!
#3532624 - 03/05/12 03:35 PM Re: I never see 121% engine Over-Torque anymore, how come? [Re: Victor1_9er]  
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Another interesting MP Thread:

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3187849/1.html

I am trying to remember how we did Hamachi. Hamachi has d(evolved) over time. Below are my recollections. Probably there are threads here that will document it better.

EARLY ON, we could join someone's virtual Hamachi Network and use the IPX LAN browser (clicking on the FOLDER in the Comm Shack) to find each other. This method had the advantage that the HOST could fly CP/G if they wanted. With regular TCP/IP connections, the HOST must be a Pilot, though it doesn't matter what slot he is in.

Next Hamachi iteration, we had to go TCP/IP, with the Clients entering the 5.x.x.x Hamachi address of the Host after clicking the KEYBOARD (HOST/MASTER clicks the MONITOR and waits).

Last time, if I recall correctly, even when connected with Hamachi, the clients entered the REAL Public IP address of the Host to make the connection.

Haven't tried it for awhile, hope it still works at all!!

Ahh this seems pretty well documented:

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3178215/1.html

Originally Posted By: Recluse
Eugene and I just spent a frustrating 3.5 hrs on the Hamachi LB2 project. In the end, we declared SUCCESS, but the road was hard.

The successful configuration involved:

Downgrading to Version 1.03. (Version 2.03.85 would not work for ANYTHING..odd since we had previously gotten a 2.0.x version to work and Eugene had SBPro working with it) Possible other versions including older 2.x versions may have worked, but we used the version AV8R had running for consistency.
Making sure that the Hamachi Network Adapter was set to the TOP of the Network adapter list
Configuring a suitable UDP/TCP port for all tunneling traffic (This option seemed to have disappeared or been buried in Version 2)

With the above caveats, when connected with Hamachi, we were STILL not able to see each other's LB2 games in the NETWORK (IPX LAN) mode. (both players clicking on the FOLDER (NETWORK GAME)This HAD worked at some point previously. The only real downside to this, is in TCP/IP mode, the HOST must be Pilot if playing Pilot/CP-G. In LAN mode, ANY player including the Host can be Gunner. We don't use this mode much, so no big loss.

We could, by entering the HAMACHI IP address, do a normal TCP/IP connection in LB2 (Host clicks the Monitor, client clicks the keyboard). We successfully flew a mission.

Note that we DID verify that WITHOUT Hamachi, while we could make a connection, the usual failure to transition into the 3D world when FLY was selected was still the case.


Unfortunately, that ForceBindIP program didn't seem to work with LB2. Didn't try to bind the Hamachi IP, but I tried to bind my regular WAN IP to beat the Router bug. Unfortunately, when doing that, not even MY name as Host appeared in the LB2 connection screen when starting Multiplayer, so I guess that is out.


Looking (again) at a Gaming VPN solution called Tunngle . It is supposed to work better than Hamachi for any LAN capable game AND works on Windows 7. Most of the games listed are fairly recent, so we can't know how it will work for LB2, but it is worth a try.

EDIT: I downloaded and installed TUNNGLE. It is as complicated and gaudy an interface as Hamachi is spare and simple. Similar to KALI but more cluttered, IMHO. Geared toward the teenage gamer, I think. I haven't figured out how to MAKE a network inside the GENRE browser, but there are already networks for things like Allied Force, BMS, Apache Air Assault etc.. not to mention many shooters and other games. There is also the possibility to create pw protected Private Networks, but, I think, in practice, as long as 2 people are in the same 'network room' it doesn't matter what it says. The groupings are only to facilitate gamers finding others playing the same game and getting into the same space, but ANY LAN Game launched in one of those rooms should connect with a similar game.

Be interesting to try with LB2

Last edited by Recluse; 03/06/12 01:46 PM.

Long system spec sig follows:



XP Box

Core2Duo E6600
ASUS P5N32-E SLI nVIDIA nFORCE 680I
ProMOS 4GB DDR2 800
EVGA GTX 560Ti
CoolerMaster CAC-T05-UW CENTURION 5
ANTEC TP3-550 550W
Samsung Syncmaster 2253BW
Soundblaster X-FI XtremeGamer
WinXP SP3

Win 7 Box: (thanks to kramer!!!)
Intel Core i7 3.06 GHz
16 GB RAM
Nvidia GTX 770
Corsair Carbide 400R Case
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit

Flight Gear:

Cougar Hotas S/N 26453
CHPro Rudder Pedals

#3551188 - 04/05/12 04:57 PM Re: I never see 121% engine Over-Torque anymore, how come? [Re: Victor1_9er]  
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crap. So after I finally get these isos downloaded (my discs are in storage accidentally), I'll have broken torque like Gunship!, not just broken rockets?


The term "necroposting" was invented by a person with no social memory beyond a year. People with a similar hangup are those o.k. with the internet being transient vapor.

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