Paul, do you have all the training docs on the Draggins website as PDFs? I registered so I could see it but couldn't download them. They're great BTW.

Paul,

I noticed in all your sight pictures that there's no stack down. A-10 pilots really fly with no stack down in close formation?

They do, I never claimed the guides were perfect...ala guides not the formation "bible"

I did this a lot in WWII Online when I started flight simming with a group. Staying in position as a wingman requires patience, adaptability and discipline - many things that are lacking in online wingman flying where we are all individuals instead of a team. I would argue that it is the most important thing that a pilot can learn next to general piloting skills (take-off, fluing and landing) as it sets up the team spirit and being able to read your wingmans moves from the orientation of their aircraft and how the flight syrfaces are moving.

After a while I ended up doing the basic training for the squad and when I started off with wingman training everyone's skill levels improved. It was eye opening for people to learn that their wingmen couldn't keep up when the lead was at full throttle and how much coordination it requires to stay in close formation (when required) and fight as a pair. They had no idea that how badly they flew was magnified and mirrored in their wingman.

Definitely too close

Fingertip separation is 3' lateral wingtip clearance - ie. if you were to overshoot lead suddenly, there wouldn't be any wing to wing contact. Paulrkii's guide is a nice visual representation of what the formation should look like ... from the cockpit, you should be seeing a bit of the far vertical stabilizer just ahead of the closer one, and I forget the lineup visual to get the distance exactly right (something like wingtip light on pilot's shoulder, etc).

Stack tends to be such that you -just- barely see the upper surface of the wing, except in formation landings: There you stick lead's helmet right on the horizon, or you'll land 'a little' low ...

It is very useful in the sim. If you can't fly fingertip, you don't know how to fly your plane, among other things. Not only that, but fingertip or route rejoin exercises teach you dogfighting.

Like mentioned above by another poster, another sign than you don't know how to fly your plane is inability to stay with lead when he's at full throttle (obviously this would be fighting wing/tactical ... fingertip at full throttle is rather ill advised as the aircraft become rather pitch sensitive).

LOL..I'll trade you a night shift for a 2-year old... Sometimes I get a double whammy and get the night shift AND watching my son the next day all day.. Talk about tired..

You always give great information Ice and are a valuable source of information..

BeachAV8R

This statement puzzles me a little because the ability to stay with your lead if he is at full throttle is at least partially dependent on the performance capability of your aircraft (ie - his plane has less draggy stores or more hp/thrust). I've always read and heard that flying wing on a someone using ultra high power settings results in significantly more fuel burn for the wingman. *

* Unless you are a Canada Goose and know how to tuck just right into the proper echelon position to benefit from the lead's wingtip vortices..

???

BeachAV8R

You normally wouldn't fly this way, but sometimes it's necessary - a couple examples:

Climbout at full throttle, can be tac or fighting wing - the wingman will burn close to the same amount of fuel as the lead, and should be able to stay in position using pitch (need to speed up, gently nose down ... need to slow down, gently pitch up). All flying must be gentle. Same in case of a very high-speed intercept.

Combat in fighting wing can be the same deal, here you have to use angles to stay in as well, and it's more difficult, but not impossible ... again, fuel born can be similar depending on how both planes are flown.

I would assume that both aircraft are similarly loaded, if they're not, then the results can be predictable as you said.

I'll swap you a 13 year old