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#3529319 - 03/01/12 02:45 AM
Re: Friday update
[Re: BKHZ_Furbs]
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Senior Member
Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 3200
Loc: B.C. Canada
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Oleg said alot of things back in the day Chivas, alot has changed since then. I bet he didn't say "by the way im bailing out of all this on day 1 of release"
You can take all of that with a pinch of very Russian salt. Oleg has kept us in the loop much more than he should have, but the business model and what they were trying to achieve is still the same. It may be a pinch of very Russian salt in your eyes, but how is that WW2 aircombat sim being developed in your country doing?
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Intel core I7 950 @ 3.8 Asus PT6 Motherboard 6 gigs OCZ DDR3 1600 Asus GTX580 Direct CU II 60 gig Corsair SSD [with only COD and dual boot OP system] 500 gig HHD LG 37" LCD MSFF2 Joystick Cougar Throttle Saitek Pro Rudder pedals Voice Activation Controls Track IR 5 ProClip
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#3529395 - 03/01/12 05:51 AM
Re: Friday update
[Re: kilosierra]
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Member
Registered: 01/15/07
Posts: 1356
Loc: Indiana, USA
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All of this conjecture is well and good, but what happens if this business with the crewable stuff doesn't go over? If it doesn't bring in the flood of new players and their cash because it's "too hard" or "too arcade"? Will it have been a huge waste of time and effort? Just because we assume that it will go over, doesn't mean that it will.
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#3529405 - 03/01/12 06:24 AM
Re: Friday update
[Re: kilosierra]
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Member
Registered: 08/09/10
Posts: 253
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That's indeed a risk they are into DaveP63, In my little universe as a projectleader I'd put all goodies on hold after this extreme mess of a launch and thrown all possible resources into getting Dover accepted by the fan-base.
I have this feeling they lost more potential flyers from online squads than they'll achive with drivable tanks.
We'll get there but in a very slow pace.
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#3529577 - 03/01/12 10:55 AM
Re: Friday update
[Re: Chivas]
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Member
Registered: 02/23/11
Posts: 605
Loc: CA, USA
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It takes about 10 minuts from the release of an update post for the pertinent facts to be lost in a sea of opinions and 'old chestnuts' getting a public roasting again. It is indications like the physics re-work for ground vehicles that actually matter in terms of where the developers are trying to take the sim.
I've pondered (admittedly not extensively due to having a life) the ground vehicles inclusion and by the looks of the clip it reminds me a lot of Red Orchestra/ Darkest Hour. I had many hours enjoyment in those games so if I can do it again at some stage in the future in a decent flightsim I would be happy. I don't think I would be alone in that by any stretch of the imagination and I do not think that the wave of anti tank sentiment is an objection to that concept. Instead I think that the larger proportion of those daft enough to dip their toes in the toxic swamps of Cliffs of Dover forums are holding their breath for the major update that we all hope will set this game on the road to success. Anything that is perceived (rightly or wrongly) to derail or delay that is an instant target for hostility.
This pertinent fact about the "Destroyed ground objects have inertia" was in the first post in the latest update thread. I agree some people could be concerned that the ground vehicle detail could take away from the air combat detail. Personally I don't see it as a concern. Oleg has hinted a few times on the direction he wants to take his new game engine. Heres a post from kendo65 where he post a translated Oleg interview. Originally Posted by kendo65 Regarding the debate on controllable tanks, AA, etc, I came across a pdf file I'd saved with an interview with Oleg from Feb 2009. It's an English translation of an interview originally posted on a Russian site - spread-wings.ru (?). English translation is by Luthier http://spread-wings.ru/content/view/154/1/Although obviously out of date there is some interesting talk about the goals they had in mind back then about SOW/COD future development. I can't post the pdf as it's 2.66MB (don't know if the pdf is still available online?), but here are some interesting excerpts (my highlights in bold) Q: You’ve stated many times in previous interviews that BoB will be drastically different from the Il-2 series. What do you mean by that? Oleg: Not a very easy question to answer, but I’ll try to respond the best I can without divulging some secret information. 1. The engine and the system we’re developing is built from the ground up to allow future expansions. Each new product can be stand-alone, or it can plug in with the others starting with BoB, following the success of Pacific Fighters which proved that this model can be viable. 2. We’re developing a system that is more than just a flight sim, but can be a sub sim, PT boat sim, tank sim, helicopter sim, etc. By the way, we just might have a flyable autogyro in BoB. 3. We’re also writing a completely new, drastically improved online code with multiple modes and features. It can even support a server-based MMO with a monthly fee. This of course won’t happen with BoB itself, but is possible on its engine, possibly made by other teams that further develop into this direction. 4. Quality level for ground and air objects is ages beyond what was one with Il-2. I don’t think that such a huge leap will be possible after BoB; the only changes that can happen is increase in polycount or texture size, or more detailed interior details. Even Il-2 was often used as a reference by other developers, and BoB will even have uses for movies. 5. We’re working on an add-on and expansion module that will not affect the online playing field. After BoB is released we plan to publish a set of tools that will allow end-users to: * Create new planes; * Create new vehicles, tanks, ships, etc; * Create new static objects, such as building, bridges, equipment, etc; * Create new maps, with limits on total size. We’ll leave large maps for ourselves, for our own new sims. Q: And now Oleg, please go into more details on your thoughts of the future of Storm of War compared to Il-2, given the potential you’ve built into the engine from the start. Oleg: Considering what I’ve said already, and given an initial commercial success of BoB, here’s what I see: 1. Some number of developers internationally that worked with MSFS, and probably a large part of them too, will convert to our side. This is especially to be expected considering the recent closing of Aces studio. So these add-on developers might just start making add-ons for Storm of War. I think this might even include jets, including modern ones. At the very least I would expect someone to do Vietnam, not to mention WWI. This should happen too. Generally WWI aircraft are easier to model and program, since they don’t have such complex aerodynamics, no retractable landing gear, propeller pitch, and other advanced devices. There’s also no radio, which means there’s no need to develop and record radio chatter. 2. Korea, in conjunction with RRG. Its development is now in background mode. Their team is now working with us finishing up planes for BoB, and also modeling ships. 3. Africa, Malta, USSR. These are most appealing choices for us. Even though we know for sure that the Pacific is the most interesting subject matter for the international market, besides Battle of Britain that is. Generally the Eastern Front is a bit easier for us to do since we have loads more data on it, and there’s less variety of vehicles and aircraft to model than all the other fronts. 4. Continuing combat around the English Channel, which will largely be made via expansions since we’ll already have the main map. 5. Cooperation with other teams to create other games (perhaps by selling the engine). For example, an MMO with controllable soldiers and submarines etc. Or even a space sim around planet surfaces with somewhat realistic physics. 6. Console variants with simplified features. You do realize this is no longer Oleg's company, run by Oleg, or headed by Oleg right? This new bunch does not have the track record earned by Oleg in my book. Now they are nearly 1 year in, and still no look at FMs, AI, CTD, stupid DM (1 wing flying), but instead we get screens of IL-2s, and crewable tanks... Chivas is like the last guy arguing the earth is still flat....
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#3529598 - 03/01/12 11:18 AM
Re: Friday update
[Re: FIScott]
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Member
Registered: 11/02/09
Posts: 538
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Instead I think that the larger proportion of those daft enough to dip their toes in the toxic swamps of Cliffs of Dover forums are holding their breath for the major update that we all hope will set this game on the road to success. Anything that is perceived (rightly or wrongly) to derail or delay that is an instant target for hostility.
Ok, I'm daft, but you got my interest peaked, so I went over to the toxic swamp. All I saw today was a few in denial drooling over how good it was going to be when/if the patch ever shows. Seems pretty dead over there compared to two months ago. It looks like most have given up like myself.
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System Specs: Main: i7 3930k @4.8Ghz, 32Gb 2133 Ram, GTX 580 3Gb SLI, 256Gb Samsung 830 SSD + 600Gb + 2x 300 Gb VelociRaptors, 1.5kw PSU, Recon 3D Fatal1ty,Logitech Z-5500 5.1 Surround, 30" Samsung LCD + 24," Logitech G11, 3X CH MFP's, Cougar MFD's, Cougar FSSB-R2 + Simpeds, TrackIR5. Secondary: Core2 Extreme QX6850 3.00 Ghz, 8Gb RAM, GTX 580 + GTX 260 , 120Gb Ocz Vertex 2 SSD + 160Gb VelociRaptor, SB X-Fi Extreme Gamer, 2 x 19"Samsung LCD's, 2x 8" VGA, 2x 7" TFT's,1000W PSU
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#3529617 - 03/01/12 11:30 AM
Re: Friday update
[Re: kilosierra]
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I'll be your Huckleberry
Veteran
Registered: 03/14/01
Posts: 10077
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
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Okay Icarus, but we will hold you to it. If we find out you are flying this sim post patch, we'll have to report you  Or do you mean given up on speculating ?
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Flight Control System - Saitek X52 throttle/Logitek Extreme 3D Pro stick - What?
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#3529668 - 03/01/12 12:24 PM
Re: Friday update
[Re: bisher]
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Member
Registered: 11/02/09
Posts: 538
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Okay Icarus, but we will hold you to it. If we find out you are flying this sim post patch, we'll have to report you  Or do you mean given up on speculating ? No problem. Both.
_________________________
System Specs: Main: i7 3930k @4.8Ghz, 32Gb 2133 Ram, GTX 580 3Gb SLI, 256Gb Samsung 830 SSD + 600Gb + 2x 300 Gb VelociRaptors, 1.5kw PSU, Recon 3D Fatal1ty,Logitech Z-5500 5.1 Surround, 30" Samsung LCD + 24," Logitech G11, 3X CH MFP's, Cougar MFD's, Cougar FSSB-R2 + Simpeds, TrackIR5. Secondary: Core2 Extreme QX6850 3.00 Ghz, 8Gb RAM, GTX 580 + GTX 260 , 120Gb Ocz Vertex 2 SSD + 160Gb VelociRaptor, SB X-Fi Extreme Gamer, 2 x 19"Samsung LCD's, 2x 8" VGA, 2x 7" TFT's,1000W PSU
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#3529737 - 03/01/12 01:34 PM
Re: Friday update
[Re: cheesehawk]
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Senior Member
Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 3200
Loc: B.C. Canada
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It takes about 10 minuts from the release of an update post for the pertinent facts to be lost in a sea of opinions and 'old chestnuts' getting a public roasting again. It is indications like the physics re-work for ground vehicles that actually matter in terms of where the developers are trying to take the sim.
I've pondered (admittedly not extensively due to having a life) the ground vehicles inclusion and by the looks of the clip it reminds me a lot of Red Orchestra/ Darkest Hour. I had many hours enjoyment in those games so if I can do it again at some stage in the future in a decent flightsim I would be happy. I don't think I would be alone in that by any stretch of the imagination and I do not think that the wave of anti tank sentiment is an objection to that concept. Instead I think that the larger proportion of those daft enough to dip their toes in the toxic swamps of Cliffs of Dover forums are holding their breath for the major update that we all hope will set this game on the road to success. Anything that is perceived (rightly or wrongly) to derail or delay that is an instant target for hostility.
This pertinent fact about the "Destroyed ground objects have inertia" was in the first post in the latest update thread. I agree some people could be concerned that the ground vehicle detail could take away from the air combat detail. Personally I don't see it as a concern. Oleg has hinted a few times on the direction he wants to take his new game engine. Heres a post from kendo65 where he post a translated Oleg interview. Originally Posted by kendo65 Regarding the debate on controllable tanks, AA, etc, I came across a pdf file I'd saved with an interview with Oleg from Feb 2009. It's an English translation of an interview originally posted on a Russian site - spread-wings.ru (?). English translation is by Luthier http://spread-wings.ru/content/view/154/1/Although obviously out of date there is some interesting talk about the goals they had in mind back then about SOW/COD future development. I can't post the pdf as it's 2.66MB (don't know if the pdf is still available online?), but here are some interesting excerpts (my highlights in bold) Q: You’ve stated many times in previous interviews that BoB will be drastically different from the Il-2 series. What do you mean by that? Oleg: Not a very easy question to answer, but I’ll try to respond the best I can without divulging some secret information. 1. The engine and the system we’re developing is built from the ground up to allow future expansions. Each new product can be stand-alone, or it can plug in with the others starting with BoB, following the success of Pacific Fighters which proved that this model can be viable. 2. We’re developing a system that is more than just a flight sim, but can be a sub sim, PT boat sim, tank sim, helicopter sim, etc. By the way, we just might have a flyable autogyro in BoB. 3. We’re also writing a completely new, drastically improved online code with multiple modes and features. It can even support a server-based MMO with a monthly fee. This of course won’t happen with BoB itself, but is possible on its engine, possibly made by other teams that further develop into this direction. 4. Quality level for ground and air objects is ages beyond what was one with Il-2. I don’t think that such a huge leap will be possible after BoB; the only changes that can happen is increase in polycount or texture size, or more detailed interior details. Even Il-2 was often used as a reference by other developers, and BoB will even have uses for movies. 5. We’re working on an add-on and expansion module that will not affect the online playing field. After BoB is released we plan to publish a set of tools that will allow end-users to: * Create new planes; * Create new vehicles, tanks, ships, etc; * Create new static objects, such as building, bridges, equipment, etc; * Create new maps, with limits on total size. We’ll leave large maps for ourselves, for our own new sims. Q: And now Oleg, please go into more details on your thoughts of the future of Storm of War compared to Il-2, given the potential you’ve built into the engine from the start. Oleg: Considering what I’ve said already, and given an initial commercial success of BoB, here’s what I see: 1. Some number of developers internationally that worked with MSFS, and probably a large part of them too, will convert to our side. This is especially to be expected considering the recent closing of Aces studio. So these add-on developers might just start making add-ons for Storm of War. I think this might even include jets, including modern ones. At the very least I would expect someone to do Vietnam, not to mention WWI. This should happen too. Generally WWI aircraft are easier to model and program, since they don’t have such complex aerodynamics, no retractable landing gear, propeller pitch, and other advanced devices. There’s also no radio, which means there’s no need to develop and record radio chatter. 2. Korea, in conjunction with RRG. Its development is now in background mode. Their team is now working with us finishing up planes for BoB, and also modeling ships. 3. Africa, Malta, USSR. These are most appealing choices for us. Even though we know for sure that the Pacific is the most interesting subject matter for the international market, besides Battle of Britain that is. Generally the Eastern Front is a bit easier for us to do since we have loads more data on it, and there’s less variety of vehicles and aircraft to model than all the other fronts. 4. Continuing combat around the English Channel, which will largely be made via expansions since we’ll already have the main map. 5. Cooperation with other teams to create other games (perhaps by selling the engine). For example, an MMO with controllable soldiers and submarines etc. Or even a space sim around planet surfaces with somewhat realistic physics. 6. Console variants with simplified features. You do realize this is no longer Oleg's company, run by Oleg, or headed by Oleg right? This new bunch does not have the track record earned by Oleg in my book. Now they are nearly 1 year in, and still no look at FMs, AI, CTD, stupid DM (1 wing flying), but instead we get screens of IL-2s, and crewable tanks... Chivas is like the last guy arguing the earth is still flat.... You do realize Oleg couldn't get it done and now Luthiers giving it a go, but their basic strategy has stayed the same. Just because you can't see the Patch, AI, FM fixes, doesn't mean they aren't being worked on. I'm the guy telling the earth is round, but you can't see it, so you don't believe it.
_________________________
Intel core I7 950 @ 3.8 Asus PT6 Motherboard 6 gigs OCZ DDR3 1600 Asus GTX580 Direct CU II 60 gig Corsair SSD [with only COD and dual boot OP system] 500 gig HHD LG 37" LCD MSFF2 Joystick Cougar Throttle Saitek Pro Rudder pedals Voice Activation Controls Track IR 5 ProClip
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#3529749 - 03/01/12 01:47 PM
Re: Friday update
[Re: kilosierra]
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Member
Registered: 04/08/05
Posts: 2395
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Well...party time tomorrow, pictures of a IL2, can hardly wait.
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#3529761 - 03/01/12 02:01 PM
Re: Friday update
[Re: BKHZ_Furbs]
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Senior Member
Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 3200
Loc: B.C. Canada
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Well...party time tomorrow, pictures of a IL2, can hardly wait.
Yes that's unfortunate, not what I was hoping for. I'm sure the developer would much rather release a patch that would make everyone happy. There is little doubt in my mind that their beta testing has shown bugs they want or need to fix before releasing it to the public for testing. That said the cockpit of the IL-2 will be interesting to look at. Maybe they will also say a few words about other progress.
_________________________
Intel core I7 950 @ 3.8 Asus PT6 Motherboard 6 gigs OCZ DDR3 1600 Asus GTX580 Direct CU II 60 gig Corsair SSD [with only COD and dual boot OP system] 500 gig HHD LG 37" LCD MSFF2 Joystick Cougar Throttle Saitek Pro Rudder pedals Voice Activation Controls Track IR 5 ProClip
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