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#3528152 - 02/28/12 04:39 PM Formation Flying: Station Keeping
EinsteinEP Online   hick
Permanoob
Senior Member

Registered: 11/20/07
Posts: 2925
Loc: Tucson, AZ
I created this simple mission to practice straight and level station keeping with an AI Lead. Not as fun as a human flight partner, but much more reliable and forgiving! wink

www.2gvsap.org/einstein/attach/FormationPractice.zip (unzip, don't just rename!)

In this mission you are air-spawned off the wing of an AI A-10C that is flying a rectangular route (WPs 0 through 3) at a constant altitude and airspeed. The rectangle is 20 NM by 10 NM so you have plenty of time between waypoints to practice station keeping and cross unders. The AI will continue to fly this rectangle in a loop until it is bingo fuel.

I strongly recommend reading up on formation flying before attempting it here. Paulrkiii has a fantastic guide that I will link to (when I get permission and find a working link!), in the meantime, here are some pointers:
  • For close fingertip formation, aim for about 45° behind the lead with some wingtip separation and stack down. See the sight picture below to see what Lead's aircraft should look like when you are in position.
  • When joining up, first get on the right angle back, then close distance to lead along that line until you're in position.
  • You are never in formation. You are always making corrections to get into formation.
  • Anticipate power and control input changes before you need them so you are always making small corrections, not large ones.
  • Smooth and steady on the inputs. Large, jerky motions scare Lead and just makes your position problem worse.
  • Tiny changes in throttle make big differences, but it takes time to see the effect. Be steady and patient, but stay on top of it before you get far out of position.
  • Behind too far ahead (aka "acute") is much more dangerous than behind too far behind (aka "sucked"). Don't do either.
  • NEVER turn belly up to Lead!
  • If the only way to stop an overrun is to turn belly up to Lead, DON'T! Descend and coast under Lead, slow down and fall back behind Lead, then creep back up into position.
  • You are making rate changes with your controls, not position changes. If you find yourself wildly oscillating (up/down, left/right, or back/forth), STOP! First make the rate of change stop, then slowly scoot into position.
  • Work on station keeping first, then try cross unders to switch sides.
Note: The AI plane flies straight and level nicely, but makes some wicked hard turns. Watch your TAD and don't get caught too close on the inside of a turn!



Sight picture for A-10C parade formation: wingtip on the ejection diamond, near engine exhaust lined up with far engine cowling.


Edited by EinsteinEP (08/12/12 06:30 PM)
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#3528499 - 02/29/12 04:01 AM Re: Station Keeping practice [Re: EinsteinEP]
- Ice Offline
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Registered: 06/23/05
Posts: 7426
Loc: Philippines / North East UK
Thanks Einstein! What does "turn belly up on lead" mean?
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#3528553 - 02/29/12 06:56 AM Re: Station Keeping practice [Re: EinsteinEP]
tomcat Offline
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Registered: 10/27/99
Posts: 2623
Loc: Halifax, NS, Canada
Roll so you lose visual?

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#3528576 - 02/29/12 08:14 AM Re: Station Keeping practice [Re: - Ice]
T}{OR Offline
DBS
Member

Registered: 08/24/07
Posts: 286
Loc: Croatia, Zagreb
Just the thing I was looking for. Thanks!

The AI is really bad for formation flying unless flying straight and level.

Here is my contribution: USN Fundamentals of Formation Flying video.

This is not about A-10, but the basic principles apply here. Have a look at our DBS formation flying fundamentals THREAD.


I like the line "You are never in formation. You are always making corrections to get into formation." smile


Originally Posted By: - Ice
Thanks Einstein! What does "turn belly up on lead" mean?


Always keep the leader in sight.

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#3528690 - 02/29/12 11:18 AM Re: Station Keeping practice [Re: - Ice]
EinsteinEP Online   hick
Permanoob
Senior Member

Registered: 11/20/07
Posts: 2925
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Originally Posted By: - Ice
What does "turn belly up on lead" mean?

See responses above.

Sometimes, when joining up, an over eager student will not recognize they have a high closure rate on Lead until too late. The instinct is to sharply bank away (i.e. turn belly up on Lead) but in doing so the Wingman loses sight of Lead, creating a very dangerous situation. The proper response is, instead, for the Wingman to pass underneath Lead in a calm and controlled manner (i.e., "overshoot"), break out of formation, then rejoin with a little less enthusiasm.

The better response is to never have that high of a closure rate in the first place!
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#3528784 - 02/29/12 12:52 PM Re: Station Keeping practice [Re: EinsteinEP]
GrayGhost Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/17/03
Posts: 4317
Yep, know how and when to break out ... for the when part:

Hazard - you have become a hazard to the formation
In front, above or under lead - you shouldn't be there
Told - you've been told to break out. Do it.
Sight - you're blind on lead/formation

Break-outs don't have to be and shouldn't be violent, and what you do depends on the situation at hand. The break-out really just means you're distancing yourself from the formation in a timely manner. No need to go crazy. If you are overtaking lead a little, fix it. If you're overshooting proper, call the break-out, pull away from lead a little, and climb a little. Don't go so crazy that both he and you go blind on each other - that's just one situation, others exist, just like the one EinsteinEP described.

Just always make sure your breakout is controlled, professional, and not excessive (ie. no need to break out 2-3-4-5nm for a 50kt overshoot).

Ask for the permission to rejoin after you have confrirmed safety of the flight, that those who need to see you do, and you see them, and rejoin in a timely manner.
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#3530419 - 03/02/12 10:07 AM Re: Station Keeping practice [Re: EinsteinEP]
darkmouse Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/22/11
Posts: 74
There is a perfect example of my wingman joining with too much enthusiasm in this vid at 2.12 and a controlled break at 2.50 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8Ykuhh4TwQ

He always tried to be too 'punchy' and #%&*$# blew it ever time!

Cheers,

Darkmouse


Edited by darkmouse (03/02/12 10:09 AM)

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#3535093 - 03/08/12 05:04 PM Re: Station Keeping practice [Re: EinsteinEP]
T}{OR Offline
DBS
Member

Registered: 08/24/07
Posts: 286
Loc: Croatia, Zagreb

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#3535221 - 03/08/12 09:58 PM Re: Station Keeping practice [Re: EinsteinEP]
EinsteinEP Online   hick
Permanoob
Senior Member

Registered: 11/20/07
Posts: 2925
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Well done, Thor! I'll let you fly my wing anytime! wink
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#3535340 - 03/09/12 05:02 AM Re: Station Keeping practice [Re: EinsteinEP]
T}{OR Offline
DBS
Member

Registered: 08/24/07
Posts: 286
Loc: Croatia, Zagreb
Thanks, I'll be glad to. smile Compared to IL2, this is much easier on the pilot. Probably due to higher fidelity FM.

I'll try to post some in cockpit shots next time around.

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