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#3551331 - 04/05/12 07:36 PM Re: I never see 121% engine Over-Torque anymore, how come? [Re: Victor1_9er]  
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Not quite so broken as in Gunship, IMHO..but I guess it depends on your system.


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#3564461 - 04/29/12 05:12 PM Re: I never see 121% engine Over-Torque anymore, how come? [Re: Recluse]  
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@RECLUSE,

Regarding the loss of engine torque or power when throttling down, its something I see on my older and newer WinXP and Vista systems.
What I observed is that its more of a rate of change issue, and not just act of de-throttling itself. When I make slow changes the
problem doesnt rear its head; but if I make fast changes it does. As long as I slowly deaccelerate with the collective, Im good.

I kind of got programmed to do this flying IL2-1946's Me262 where fast changes on the throttle would catch the engines on fire. In this
case thats historically and mechanically accurate, for the Apache I have no idea but its a fair guess this is not a bug as much as it is
how the coding was done back in the day with the hardware they had. I seriously doubt that they anticipated Moores Law to the extent
that it is, nor did they imagine this sim would have the long and bowed legs that it has proven to have.

Cheers mate. Perchance we will get another LB2 MP Day going.

AV8R
copter


AV8R
#3565454 - 05/01/12 12:09 PM Re: I never see 121% engine Over-Torque anymore, how come? [Re: AV8R]  
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Originally Posted By: AV8R
Regarding the loss of engine torque or power when throttling down, its something I see on my older and newer WinXP and Vista systems. What I observed is that its more of a rate of change issue, and not just act of de-throttling itself. When I make slow changes the
problem doesnt rear its head; but if I make fast changes it does. As long as I slowly deaccelerate with the collective, Im good.


Interesting observation. You mean that you don't always get the high overtorque numbers if you make fast changes to your collective? Who knows, this could even be how the real FADEC functions? The more people observe and question various little 'flaws' in LB2, the more I find out that they are in actual fact meant to be there because of how the real helicopter(s) work.

#3565477 - 05/01/12 12:44 PM Re: I never see 121% engine Over-Torque anymore, how come? [Re: Victor1_9er]  
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Well, since there is a clear difference in the behavior on the kind of computer LB2 was designed on vs. a much faster CPU, I do think this is really a BUG (or coding issue..probably some fixed vs. floating point mathematics was Flexman's diagnosis once upon a time) and not a FEATURE similar to the aiming of the rockets.

Last edited by Recluse; 05/01/12 12:46 PM.

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#3565563 - 05/01/12 04:09 PM Re: I never see 121% engine Over-Torque anymore, how come? [Re: Victor1_9er]  
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Ah, I'm so out-of-touch with this stuff now. frown

#3566239 - 05/02/12 07:15 PM Re: I never see 121% engine Over-Torque anymore, how come? [Re: Recluse]  
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Well, in spite of this I still miss Gunship! and LB2. I was looking forward to trying them out with the X-65f HOTAS (and the pedals, if possible), but I left the discs in Oregon in storage while at grad school. It's so strange, because I have Flanker and F-15 in the CD wallet, but not those two. Isos and abandonware possibilities I guess are non-existent. I think if I had my mom get them out of storage she might nag and call me hermit ;-P


The term "necroposting" was invented by a person with no social memory beyond a year. People with a similar hangup are those o.k. with the internet being transient vapor.

http://www.openfuelstandard.org/2011/12/methanol-wins-open-wager.html

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#3566604 - 05/03/12 12:37 PM Re: I never see 121% engine Over-Torque anymore, how come? [Re: Reticuli]  
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Originally Posted By: Reticuli
. I think if I had my mom get them out of storage she might nag and call me hermit ;-P


Or Recluse biggrin


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#3566971 - 05/03/12 10:41 PM Re: I never see 121% engine Over-Torque anymore, how come? [Re: Victor1_9er]  
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My X65F throttle was only going up to about half torq. I screwed around with the CA.ini and fixed it after some trial and error. I think I had to do that at one other time, too, with the X52 in Las Vegas.

;
TMin=0,
TMax=255,
TDead=0,
TSat=9500,
;

Amazingly, LB2 works in both glide and D3D just fine. The D3D config file is my very old one that I hadn't used in many years. Works fine with Intel integrated 4500 graphics. One of the Phoenix mods is necessary, too, for good stability. The latest one is seemingly better. Followed all of Flyboy and Phoenix's instructions. My one-quarter menu screen got fixed, too. That had me a little scared it was a futile effort. Either install it outside of the Program (x86) directory or be prepared to do frequent Admin stuff, even with just notepad ini edits. Definitely run LB2.exe as Admin, too.

Too bad there doesn't seem to be any way I can find to get LB2 to use a specified joystick, as I wanted to have it use PPJoy so I could get the pedals in the mix, but I guess we can't have everything. Perhaps there's a config file option somewhere or hex editing opportunity? I also hope Saitek does something about its drivers and profiler to allow you to disable and combine axiis within a single stick, like Thrustmaster allows. There are already some limited modder registry hacks for the X52 and X65 that can do a little of that, but not enough yet.

I did two missions last night until 5AM after much effort was expended downloading isos of the discs I already have in storage and struggling to work out the kinks. The world is my cloud. All our fond memories about the single-aircraft Janes titles is justified... and WWII Fighters, for that matter, has yet to let me down for a super-high-fps fuss-free WWII-fix on any system.

Many thanks to everyone who made this possible. I hope the stability lasts. Props, bros... pleasant pun not intended, but appropriate.

Last edited by Reticuli; 05/03/12 10:49 PM.

The term "necroposting" was invented by a person with no social memory beyond a year. People with a similar hangup are those o.k. with the internet being transient vapor.

http://www.openfuelstandard.org/2011/12/methanol-wins-open-wager.html

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X52 + Silicone Grease = JOY stick
#3567852 - 05/05/12 06:13 PM Re: I never see 121% engine Over-Torque anymore, how come? [Re: Victor1_9er]  
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Glad to hear you've got a few game issues worked out, Reticuli. I always had you down as one of the hardcore amongst us, so it is with a little unease that I hear of you having problems.

It didn't cross my mind for you (or others) to tweak the CA.INI file to try and resolve the joystick/collective issue.

It would indeed be the ideal thing to have all your axis combined into a single stick, much like in the Comanche! wink

#3567921 - 05/05/12 08:34 PM Re: I never see 121% engine Over-Torque anymore, how come? [Re: Victor1_9er]  
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Yeah no pedals, but the twist is working fine on the X65F for it. I just can't figure out if I'm actually progressing in the campaign. Other than some issues with button presses causing rapid MFD changes, the only completely persistent glitch now seems to be CTDs when ending a mission using Glide. I'm not certain, but I think my good old dgvoodoo settings might be helping that 50% of the time. And those CTDs are gone when using D3D. I did have a fabulous screen corruption with Phoenix's dgvoodoo files in the form of half the 2D panel disappearing. I'd love to have that whole graphics panel, sans the MFDs, HUD, and dials disappear ;-P But his files were also giving me stuttering I think. Hmm... maybe I should try them again. I did have to reboot for some other reason.

Now I got to get back to figuring out why Blackshark has 3D objects disappearing in the Shkval once I close within 5km. The ED folks just want me to reinstall. I just installed it! That might fix it, but I had to tweak it to get it working in the first place and it's so many darn steps to turn off various things, get the HMS centering (I don't get why that's not in the first place), and on and on. Labels. Water. Smoke. Etc, etc. Lot of crud to tweak until it works acceptably. The issues never frigg'n end, dude. I never had objects disappear on my desktop, though. I finally get the fps to a good range (at least before stuff starts exploding near me), and this comes up. Lordy, lordy, lordy. I'll get very bored with DCS BS once it does run, because the missions suck so bad, but I'd like the option to become bored with it again, you know?

LB2 is never boring. I don't know why that is. I mean, the missions aren't that well scripted, but there's just something about the environment.

Little sad PPJoy can't work with it. I was looking forward to the VRS script. Not having the pedals work just makes my wallet feel a little lite with them sitting under the desk as glorified foot rests, but the fidelity of LB2's flight model is so nice it was like the last missing thing to drop like a rock when lowering collective too fast when leveled out.

Last edited by Reticuli; 05/05/12 08:35 PM.

The term "necroposting" was invented by a person with no social memory beyond a year. People with a similar hangup are those o.k. with the internet being transient vapor.

http://www.openfuelstandard.org/2011/12/methanol-wins-open-wager.html

Saitek X65 and X52, Glide, Winx3D, and GlovePIE Profiles http://library.avsim.net/search.php?SearchTerm=reticuli&CatID=miscmisc

http://library.avsim.net/register.php

X52 + Silicone Grease = JOY stick
#3568256 - 05/06/12 03:20 PM Re: I never see 121% engine Over-Torque anymore, how come? [Re: Victor1_9er]  
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Unfortunately, LB2 is a very strange game in that almost everyone we come across has a different set of issues with trying to run it on modern systems. Phoenix's fixes helped me greatly, at first, but I also get that CTD after every mission when running in 3DFX mode. Me and another guy or two did actually narrow that particular CTD down to the fact that we are using USB joysticks, strangely enough - as when you don't have the joystick plugged in, you don't get the crash. Why it affects 3DFX mode only though, is weird. Or does it affect the other modes too? I can't remember now.

But of course, you just have to have a joystick to play LB2. Just for an experiment, unplug your joystick and see if you don't get the CTD after a mission (you don't actually have to do the mission, just enter it then quit).

Some people (like me) do in fact get a rather rudimentary implementation of VRS in LB2, on modern systems. It was one of the things that finally made me give up with the sim, every time I tried to come to a hover and lowered my collective a bit, I'd go into a mad uncontrollable VRS. Must be something to do with the in-game mechanics cycling too fast.

#3568838 - 05/07/12 04:13 PM Re: I never see 121% engine Over-Torque anymore, how come? [Re: Victor1_9er]  
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D3D is definitely pretty darn stable. I've just been switching that back and forth in the CA.ini to test, so I don't have to re-copy the D3D file every time after it changes it with the utility. nGlide and the older dgVoodoo files of mine are about the same. The new Phoenix dgVoodoo files at their default were worse than the other two glide methods I tried, until I tried setting it to 16bit color on both pages. Now it is more stable than the other two. I remember some setting like that also being necessary in JF-15. Still not quite at D3D 640x480 stable, but I can run it at 1366x768 and finish a mission most of the time without it crashing. Still occasional rapid button presses and shift/ctrl/alt sticking or CTDs, but playable. Ctrl-alt-delete and alt-tab are things likely to increase CTD, though previously with glide they always produced CTD.

The sim seems not to like being run (or doesn't require) as Admin.

When doing some of the single missions, I found it feeling like it was running at X2, though. When going over 80kts things happened very fast. I don't remember it doing that before, but I'm not sure it ever ran this well outside of Window 98 and D3D... when it was freakishly fluid and lite feeling. This isn't quite like that, but there's something definitely fast about it. I still need to test rockets.

Oh and I gave up on Blackshark for this laptop. The Shkval issue must be some glitch related to integrated graphics and Windows 7. It had nothing to do with any of my LOD settings or graphics mods. I did get the fps to around 20-30fps, but not being able to close within 3km now without objects disappearing is a dealbreaker. Too bad.

Last edited by Reticuli; 05/07/12 04:16 PM.

The term "necroposting" was invented by a person with no social memory beyond a year. People with a similar hangup are those o.k. with the internet being transient vapor.

http://www.openfuelstandard.org/2011/12/methanol-wins-open-wager.html

Saitek X65 and X52, Glide, Winx3D, and GlovePIE Profiles http://library.avsim.net/search.php?SearchTerm=reticuli&CatID=miscmisc

http://library.avsim.net/register.php

X52 + Silicone Grease = JOY stick
#3568863 - 05/07/12 04:56 PM Re: I never see 121% engine Over-Torque anymore, how come? [Re: Victor1_9er]  
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How is D3D looking on your rig? I always got those artifacts from Hellfire motor smoke that would cut up my 2D cockpit. Plus other minor gripes such as the canopy glass having a shiny mirror-look in external view. I also think the game runs faster by default in D3D, as it can make full use of the power of your graphics card, unhindered. When running 3DFX through a glide wrapper, you can turn on VSync to slow things down a bit and essentially limit the framerate.

If you haven't seen it already, take a look at my Display Mode Comparison page:
http://digitality.comyr.com/flyboy/lb2/gfx/gfx.html

#3568873 - 05/07/12 05:16 PM Re: I never see 121% engine Over-Torque anymore, how come? [Re: Victor1_9er]  
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Holy Helos!! I have never even TRIED to run LB2 in other than 3DFX (with Glide Wrapper or on previous machines with 3DFX cards). Based on your screenshots, D3D looks MIGHTY GOOD and software doesn't even look too bad.

Last edited by Recluse; 05/07/12 05:17 PM.

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Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit

Flight Gear:

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#3568934 - 05/07/12 07:11 PM Re: I never see 121% engine Over-Torque anymore, how come? [Re: Victor1_9er]  
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Hmmm. My D3D versions never looked anywhere near the same planet as the Glide version. It was revelatory when we got the wrapper utility and configuration going back when.


Eugene

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#3571188 - 05/11/12 05:14 PM Re: I never see 121% engine Over-Torque anymore, how come? [Re: Victor1_9er]  
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Recluse - You're correct that D3D doesn't look bad at all, but in motion there are a few annoying things like those 'artifacts' I mentioned above. And I actually kinda prefer Software mode for the terrain, as it is more pixellated and seems to make it more 'noisy' and less smoothed out - just as you would expect the ground to be.

Eugene - The problem with the D3D version is that you have to really play around with the Display Driver Update and select the right preset configuration for your graphics card. Gone are the days when not only did we have to select which graphics mode to use, but also which type of graphics card we had! Varying results could be seen in D3D, and to be honest it was rather poorly implemented at best.

One thing that I always found strange, is the fact that the LB2 demo had a graphics mode selector - yet, with the full game, we had to wait for the patch and DDU before we could change graphics mode.

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