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#3523534 - 02/21/12 06:11 PM Re: So the next patch... [Re: BKHZ_Furbs]  
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You thinking 3rd party Bisher? well...we need the SDK first.

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#3523588 - 02/21/12 07:39 PM Re: So the next patch... [Re: BKHZ_Furbs]  
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I would have been a waste of time for the developer to put considerable resources into building a massive campaign when they new the sim wasn't optimized enough for most people to run it. The developer is still finishing and fine tuning the game engine to make this possible. I doubt we will see any major campaigns built by the developer, but they are building a game engine, FMB with Triggers, and SDK that will give talented people in the community the tools to build very impressive campaigns. If the series survives the unrelenting pessimism, all the hand wringing and angst will be forgotten when the developer finishes the sim. The sooner you guys get over the fact the sim was just released unfinished and not dead, you'll feel better.


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#3523615 - 02/21/12 08:21 PM Re: So the next patch... [Re: Chivas]  
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Oleg has stated in the past that the single player portion of the game is whats sells units, not so much multiplayer. It's a shame that they didn't get to spend more time on it during the long development period. Now it will be up to the gamers to do it with the SDK. I imagine the installment after BoM will just be an empty box with a SDK disc in it...lol.


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#3523627 - 02/21/12 08:41 PM Re: So the next patch... [Re: BKHZ_Furbs]  
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Chivas, what will affect the series more...

1. A few forum members moaning about stuff

2. A awful release, Low review scores, bad press, missing features, crap single player campaigns, terrible AI, bad performance, no FSAA, FM off the mark for most planes, no SLI support, a GUI from the 90s, old clouds and a host of other stuff.

Chivas, stop blaming a few forum members for CLOD problems.

The development of CLOD has nothing to do with us, Luthier made the decisions with it nobody else. Luthier picked "spitgirl" and said "trust me on this" nobody else.

The sooner you stop the handwringing yourself and get out from behide the sofa the better.

The public who are interested in buying CLOD will check out the online reviews first, then check the score, then prob look at utube videos of the game, then look for people views on forums.
None of what we say is untrue and its not our fault the online reviews are bad or any of the other problems.

That's Luthiers fault.

Edit. We ALL hope the next patch will do alot for CLOD, but Luthier has said the will be no more content for CLOD, whats unfinished will not get finished.

Lets hope the SDK and the community can finish the job.

Last edited by BKHZ_Furbs; 02/21/12 09:33 PM.
#3523628 - 02/21/12 08:42 PM Re: So the next patch... [Re: bisher]  
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Originally Posted By: bisher
Originally Posted By: VonBarb.
So why spend time and resources on it now, when there are much more pressing matters to attend to


Kinda unfair to ask a question we have no answer to, but you're making assumptions VonBarb that seems a bit of a stretch. What pressing matters are they not looking into? Do they still not have different people working on different areas of the sim as in the past? Is it more efficient to have 10 people working on FMs, DMs, etc, or 2?

smile


I was thinking maybe the engine overhaul and optimization which they've stated they're working on, and which we've yet to see any evidence of in the preview videos. Do they not have different people working on different areas of the sim ? I really hope so, but surely, with such a big overhaul at hand, there must be enough for every programmer and modeling artist to do without diverting resources and manpower to such secondary features.
Is it more efficient to have 10 people working on FMs and DMs ? For the sake of balance between all types, two people (one axis-biased and one allies-biased biggrin ) working closely together on gathering data and translating it into the engine sounds fair, but then, when it comes to the actual programming, the more the quicker wouldn't you say ? And somehow I get the feeling that the same people who are able to program road vehicles physics and AI behaviour could just as well be working on aircraft.

Quite hard to say in any case, since Ilya's one-liner answers to interviews and 1C's general lack of communication leaves too much room for one's pessimistic imagination. The only real answers we get whenever we ask for progress updates, are in the form of previews of features that seem to have the team doing superficial work in all directions but nothing meaningful in the right one.

I stopped following this sim day to day a couple of months ago, so I might be out of the loop. Some good points in this thread, there might be hope yet... Maybe I should go back to not paying attention until the next patch is out and I have something concrete to express my satisfaction (or lack thereof) about.

Cheers

Nico


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#3523634 - 02/21/12 08:47 PM Re: So the next patch... [Re: BKHZ_Furbs]  
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bisher Offline
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He he, I'm convinced VonBarb the updates are not to keep us informed but to play with our minds. smile



#3523642 - 02/21/12 08:58 PM Re: So the next patch... [Re: BKHZ_Furbs]  
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If that's the case then you gotta give it to them, they're doing a great job... In my case anyway.

Cheers

Nico


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#3523652 - 02/21/12 09:12 PM Re: So the next patch... [Re: VonBarb.]  
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Originally Posted By: VonBarb.
Originally Posted By: Georgio
simulate the actual BoB experience?


eek2 You don't say... Anyway the experience obviously won't be complete without Spit Girl's rideable bicycle, cottage and adorable fox terrier Mr Sniffles implemented. Oh and the milkman's lorry properly modeled too !

Cheers

Nico


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#3523664 - 02/21/12 09:29 PM Re: So the next patch... [Re: Force10]  
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Originally Posted By: Force10
Oleg has stated in the past that the single player portion of the game is whats sells units, not so much multiplayer. It's a shame that they didn't get to spend more time on it during the long development period. Now it will be up to the gamers to do it with the SDK. I imagine the installment after BoM will just be an empty box with a SDK disc in it...lol.


Quoted from Blackdog KT Moderator at the banana forum:

"In all honesty, the previous series showed that about 80% of the end users were offliners (there's still a quote in one of Oleg's interview lying around, should be possible to find with a google search).

Organized squads are a part of the remaining 20% that flies online and i don't know how much of that 20% it constitutes: while organized online wars and coops were a big part of the community scene, so were the objective based DF servers and the free-for-all ahistorical, pure dogfight servers.

Original post here:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=391849&postcount=272

Last edited by DaveP63; 02/21/12 09:29 PM.

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#3523668 - 02/21/12 09:38 PM Re: So the next patch... [Re: BKHZ_Furbs]  
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Im pretty sure Luthier knows about the brake down of players , which does make the lack of single player and COOPs a very bad development decision IMO.
It will be interesting to see which way BOM goes.

#3523700 - 02/21/12 10:04 PM Re: So the next patch... [Re: BKHZ_Furbs]  
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Project management at Maddox/Luthier has always been a mystery to me, but CloD simply tops the cake in that regard. SpitGirl, the Italian Airforce, a single RAF bomber, basically no navy vessels, the abysmal campaigns, crew-able flak guns, driveable vehicles, dress-able pilot dolls, a poor weather system, I could go on and on...

Either they simply don't care what their fans want, they don't understand what their fans want or they are unable to create the content the fans want.

I'm sure there are some excellent technicians in the team, but there isn't a single game designer worth its salt in that team. And since they're building a "simulation" they believe they don't need one. Which is the big problem.


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#3523714 - 02/21/12 10:24 PM Re: So the next patch... [Re: Para_Bellum]  
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I think it is pretty clear what happened.

They had to release what they had, prematurely!

Then they had all hands full, and still have, to get their baby running adequately.

There are simply no resources left to develop new stuff, so they take what was already there from earlier development,

like the cars, guns, minelayer and earlier the spitgirl, and could be implemented with minimal work.

Just to pacify the community a bit without wasting precious resources.

And as usual, the community acts like: anything you do or say can and will be used to prosecute you.

A rather sad community that always is looking for something/someone to put the blame on.

If not shure, always in favour of the deliquent!

#3523718 - 02/21/12 10:30 PM Re: So the next patch... [Re: robtek]  
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The sim community is mostly fine, just look at IL2, ROF, A10 and the other sims. The CLOD is split, divided, happy, sad, haters, fanboys say what you will...but its ONLY because the state of the game. If the sim was in a much better state we would be praising it and flying it.

#3523744 - 02/21/12 11:10 PM Re: So the next patch... [Re: BKHZ_Furbs]  
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Chivas Offline
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Originally Posted By: BKHZ_Furbs
Chivas, what will affect the series more...

1. A few forum members moaning about stuff

2. A awful release, Low review scores, bad press, missing features, crap single player campaigns, terrible AI, bad performance, no FSAA, FM off the mark for most planes, no SLI support, a GUI from the 90s, old clouds and a host of other stuff.

Chivas, stop blaming a few forum members for CLOD problems.

The development of CLOD has nothing to do with us, Luthier made the decisions with it nobody else. Luthier picked "spitgirl" and said "trust me on this" nobody else.

The sooner you stop the handwringing yourself and get out from behide the sofa the better.

The public who are interested in buying CLOD will check out the online reviews first, then check the score, then prob look at utube videos of the game, then look for people views on forums.
None of what we say is untrue and its not our fault the online reviews are bad or any of the other problems.

That's Luthiers fault.

Edit. We ALL hope the next patch will do alot for CLOD, but Luthier has said the will be no more content for CLOD, whats unfinished will not get finished.

Lets hope the SDK and the community can finish the job.


First off I've never blamed a any members of any forum for the unfinished state of COD. But if thats your best argument so be it. The developers had to release an unfinished sim, which garnered alot of bad press, and deservedly so. I was as disappointed with the release as anyone else, but I understood that the development wasn't dead and the influx of cash would help the developers finish the sim. Everyone especially the developer understood along time ago whats working and not working, so your constant unrelenting whinging does absolutely no good, and at worst drives away potential buyers that could help finance the development.


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#3523770 - 02/21/12 11:44 PM Re: So the next patch... [Re: FearlessFrog]  
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Originally Posted By: FearlessFrog
Code:
int personalInsults = 0;
int repeatedArguments = 99;
bool wait = true;

public class CloDForumAddIn()
{
  while (not patchOutYet)
  {
    if (speculation > 1.0)
    {
      realNews = realNews - 1;
      Date now = now + 1;
      thingsActuallyKnown = 0;
    }
    
    while (wait)
    {
      personalInsults++;
      repeatedArguments++;
      
      float sequel = sequel * NobodyKnows * 0.5f; 
      
      if (sequel == (0.21 * OlegsStarsign))
        break;
    }
  }
};

static float NobodyKnows()
{
  return Random.next();
}


lol

You wizard - that certainly tops my attempted explanation through misuse of Buddhist causality! Brilliant sir!

#3523934 - 02/22/12 06:21 AM Re: So the next patch... [Re: Para_Bellum]  
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Originally Posted By: Para_Bellum
Project management at Maddox/Luthier has always been a mystery to me

{comical disbelief} You found project management at Maddox Games? Where? When? {/comical disbelief}

Originally Posted By: Para_Bellum
SpitGirl

Utterly pointless.

Originally Posted By: Para_Bellum
the Italian Airforce

Not so pointless, if the rest was complete and we had more of Belgium. And if the next installment was the MTO. But hey ... wink

Originally Posted By: Para_Bellum
a single RAF bomber

Which is really the only sensible type used in daylight and night, the Wellington and others were already relegated to night duty only.

Originally Posted By: Para_Bellum
basically no navy vessels

Utterly incomprehensible.

Originally Posted By: Para_Bellum
the abysmal campaigns

Inexcusable.

Originally Posted By: Para_Bellum
crew-able flak guns, driveable vehicles, dress-able pilot dolls, a poor weather system, I could go on and on...

Sometimes the guys do give the impression of workers trying to build a house starting with the roof ridge, then jumping to the installation of the plumbing, doing some isolation (for the non-existant walls) in between etc ...

Originally Posted By: Para_Bellum
Either they simply don't care what their fans want, they don't understand what their fans want or they are unable to create the content the fans want.

My guess is they have no idea about PR so they are always suprised by the backlash their posts generate. People have clear priorities but apparently MG is living in a little world of its own where the clocks tick a bit differently. Kind of ivory tower ... only not so luxurious. wink

Originally Posted By: Para_Bellum
I'm sure there are some excellent technicians in the team, but there isn't a single game designer worth its salt in that team. And since they're building a "simulation" they believe they don't need one. Which is the big problem.

This. Bold, underlined, printed on DIN A0 and plastered across MG's office walls.


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#3523942 - 02/22/12 06:44 AM Re: So the next patch... [Re: BKHZ_Furbs]  
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theOden Offline
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Originally Posted By: BKHZ_Furbs
The sim community is mostly fine, just look at IL2, ROF, A10 and the other sims. The CLOD is split, divided, happy, sad, haters, fanboys say what you will...but its ONLY because the state of the game. If the sim was in a much better state we would be praising it and flying it.


Amen.

#3523950 - 02/22/12 07:00 AM Re: So the next patch... [Re: Chivas]  
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Originally Posted By: Chivas
Originally Posted By: BKHZ_Furbs
Chivas, what will affect the series more...

1. A few forum members moaning about stuff

2. A awful release, Low review scores, bad press, missing features, crap single player campaigns, terrible AI, bad performance, no FSAA, FM off the mark for most planes, no SLI support, a GUI from the 90s, old clouds and a host of other stuff.

Chivas, stop blaming a few forum members for CLOD problems.

The development of CLOD has nothing to do with us, Luthier made the decisions with it nobody else. Luthier picked "spitgirl" and said "trust me on this" nobody else.

The sooner you stop the handwringing yourself and get out from behide the sofa the better.

The public who are interested in buying CLOD will check out the online reviews first, then check the score, then prob look at utube videos of the game, then look for people views on forums.
None of what we say is untrue and its not our fault the online reviews are bad or any of the other problems.

That's Luthiers fault.

Edit. We ALL hope the next patch will do alot for CLOD, but Luthier has said the will be no more content for CLOD, whats unfinished will not get finished.

Lets hope the SDK and the community can finish the job.


First off I've never blamed a any members of any forum for the unfinished state of COD. But if thats your best argument so be it. The developers had to release an unfinished sim, which garnered alot of bad press, and deservedly so. I was as disappointed with the release as anyone else, but I understood that the development wasn't dead and the influx of cash would help the developers finish the sim. Everyone especially the developer understood along time ago whats working and not working, so your constant unrelenting whinging does absolutely no good, and at worst drives away potential buyers that could help finance the development.



Ok your not blaming forum members for CLODs problems in development, i take that back Chivas smile

But you are saying we are affecting the future of the series more than Luthiers bad development decisions, sloppy management and the sim bad reviews and that isn't fair Chivas.


Chivas, CLOD is finished. Luthier has said no more content, some fixed "maybe" but that's it for CLOD.
Its Luthier who keeps dropping the ball not us.



Last edited by BKHZ_Furbs; 02/22/12 07:03 AM.
#3523960 - 02/22/12 08:11 AM Re: So the next patch... [Re: BKHZ_Furbs]  
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Chivas Offline
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I didn't say you and other negative people around here are a bigger problem than the developers unfinished release, but I certainly think your adding to the problem.

COD is certainly not dead, but I will agree the developer will probably not be making any further campaigns for the Battle of Britain, but they will certainly refine the tools for others to build those missions and campaigns.

The developer is optimizing the graphic engine to allow better frame rates for COD.
The developers will be making aircraft for other theaters that can be applied historically to missions on the COD map.
The developer will be refining the Graphics which can be applied to the COD map.
The developer will be refining the AI that will apply to COD.
The developer will be refining the Commands that will apply to COD.
The developer will be refining the FM that will apply to COD aircraft.
The developer will be refining the DM that will apply to COD.
The developer will be developing the SDK which will apply to COD.
The developer will be developing Map Making Tools that will apply to fixing areas of the COD map.
The community and third parties will be making aircraft that can be applied historically to the Battle of Britain.
The community and third parties will be designing missions and campaigns for the Battle of Britain.
The community and third parties will be modeling ships that could be used on the COD map. ie Jun 6th 1944 etc etc
The developer will be refining Radar contacts, etc that will be use in the Battle of Britain.
The developer will be modeling ground vehicles and tanks that could be used on the COD map.
The developer will be modeling Dynamic Weather that will be used on the COD map.
The developer will be modeling Human Animation that will be used on the COD map.
The developer will be enabling DX 11, maybe even DX 12, that will be used on the COD map.
The developer will be enabling AA and AF that will be used on the COD map.

This is just the start, I could go on, and on , and so could others add to the list, never mind any new features the developer hasn't mentioned.

COD isn't dead yet.

Last edited by Chivas; 02/22/12 08:22 AM.

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#3523965 - 02/22/12 08:26 AM Re: So the next patch... [Re: BKHZ_Furbs]  
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Except there is no tangible evidence available yet showing any progress on any of these elements. The safe assumption to make is that these are all being worked on for a hypothetical sequel to CLOD, which isn't even officially announced yet. Even when said sequel is out, when asked if he understood the community would be very disappointed if features from the sequel did not retro-actively affect CLOD, Ilya's only answer was "yes".

Despite all evidence pointing to the contrary, the optimistic part of me still wants to believe they will surprise us with a huge patch that will address most of the more crippling issues and pave the way for the community to make CLOD what it deserves to be, but you have to admit the current situation is pretty grim...

Cheers

Nico


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